Wife and I are new to shooting (she has never shot and I did some when I was younger). Was considering purchasing a 20 gauge for her to shoot trap. Is there much of a difference in felt recoil between this and a 12 gauge with the same actions? Should she just shoot 12 gauge because ammo is more common and cheaper? As an FYI she's 5'3" and about 120 lbs. Thanks for any help!
Felt Recoil
- Thread starter Canadan
- Start date
Yes there should be. At the trap shoot event I went to they had 20ga for women and 12ga for the men. 20ga is usually a 7/8oz load but 12ga has 1 1/8oz, but of course 7/8 target loads are avail.
A semi will also have less then a SxS.
A semi will also have less then a SxS.
Visit some gun clubs and be polite and explain your situation and you will generally find that most are willing to let you hold or even try their trap guns. See what fits her and what she can handle. Being on the short side shell likely have short arms which tends to give ladies and youth issues with heavier full sized long barreled trap guns. A break action helps keep the weight more between the hands and closer to the body. A gas operated semi will offer less felt recoil. A gun like the Beretta a400 comes with or without a kickoff recoil dampening system which maybe something to look at if recoil bothers her. You wont know until she starts shooting. My wife says a 28ga semi auto kicks to hard yet other women shoot 12ga just fine
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Make sure she has good hearing protection.
- Over the years I've noticed that women are usually more bothered by noise than recoil... as in, the wife doesn't like the 12g while hunting, unless she wearing Surefire ear plug, then it's perfectly OK. Or she won't shoot the 45acp with earplugs, but with earmuff it's perfectly fine.
- Over the years I've noticed that women are usually more bothered by noise than recoil... as in, the wife doesn't like the 12g while hunting, unless she wearing Surefire ear plug, then it's perfectly OK. Or she won't shoot the 45acp with earplugs, but with earmuff it's perfectly fine.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I have to ask...Really shooting trap or shooting some clays for fun? Some people use the terms interchangeably, but they're definitely not the same thing.
Based on the discussions in a previous thread and my subsequent searching of the EE, I see at least three Remington 1100 in 20ga for sale. They're spendy but you won't have to buy her another 20ga ever.
Based on the discussions in a previous thread and my subsequent searching of the EE, I see at least three Remington 1100 in 20ga for sale. They're spendy but you won't have to buy her another 20ga ever.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
It really depends on the gun and the fit, some 20’s will recoil less than 12’s but I’ve seen 20’s that recoil more. Weight is a big factor and many 20’s are lighter than 12’s so recoil is the same if all else is equal. Generally speaking, a gas operated semi will feel like it has less recoil.
12 guage target loads come in a wide variety of weights and speed but generally speaking 1 oz loads at 1150 fps are fairly light recoiling and are not hard to find.
My wife decided from the beginning that she wanted a 12 but she went through 2 or 3 guns before settling on a 682 Gold E which she shoots to this day. It has an adjustable Graco pad, adjustable comb and fits her well.
12 guage target loads come in a wide variety of weights and speed but generally speaking 1 oz loads at 1150 fps are fairly light recoiling and are not hard to find.
My wife decided from the beginning that she wanted a 12 but she went through 2 or 3 guns before settling on a 682 Gold E which she shoots to this day. It has an adjustable Graco pad, adjustable comb and fits her well.
Some really great advice in this thread, but I have to repeat this, for sure. Every person experiences "felt recoil" differently, and actual "free recoil" is just one (small) part of the equation. We can theorize about shooter stature, fit, handling, weight, balance, etc., but it's all theory until you get her shooting. Then we'll have some kind of reference point to go from.
Couldn't agree more, but I'll add that it's not just women. And it's not just recoil and noise that can make a new shooter gun shy, but also muzzle blast. Not everybody notices or cares about blast, but it's a factor for many.
You're right - The sound that does make it to the eardrum is different if you're using muffs vs. plugs - Not just louder or quieter. Sound travels through the bones of your skull, and earmuffs have an effect on this while plugs can't of course. I use both plugs and muffs when I can, but it can be hard to find muffs that work with shotguns.
Recoil is relatively simple. It's physics. The gauge is immaterial. What counts is the weight of the gun and that weight is offsetting the recoil forces created by the weight of the load (1 oz, 7/8 oz, whatever) and the speed that load is accelerated to.
So the recoil from an 8 pound gun shooting a 1 1/8 oz load at 1250 fps will be quite soft in comparison to the same load, same speed coming out of the barrels of a 6 1/2 pound gun. Makes zero difference if it's a 12 ga or a 20 ga.
Increase the load or the speed or both and recoil goes up. Increase the weight of the gun and recoil goes down.
The only other factor that makes a noticeable difference is if the gun is a semi auto. In the case of semi auto, the action of the gun re-chambering a round will absorb a noticeable amount of recoil.
So the recoil from an 8 pound gun shooting a 1 1/8 oz load at 1250 fps will be quite soft in comparison to the same load, same speed coming out of the barrels of a 6 1/2 pound gun. Makes zero difference if it's a 12 ga or a 20 ga.
Increase the load or the speed or both and recoil goes up. Increase the weight of the gun and recoil goes down.
The only other factor that makes a noticeable difference is if the gun is a semi auto. In the case of semi auto, the action of the gun re-chambering a round will absorb a noticeable amount of recoil.
A 5’3” 120 lb women will not be able to handle a 8 lb gun for 25 rounds of trap not enough strength to lift the gun over and over
As far as gauge 12 ha would be the choice with 1 oz or 7/8 oz loads at 1050 FPS to 1100 FPS as far as a gun to use one of the new compact version with correct stock dimensions and a 24” or a 26” bbl will be fine
She won’t be shooting in the Olympics any time soon so no need to go over the top with equipment
As far as the theory of going to a club and trying out guns it is just that she is 5’3” not a single gun will work for her . Also experienced have there gun set up for themselves so not likely to fit to many other people
As far as gauge 12 ha would be the choice with 1 oz or 7/8 oz loads at 1050 FPS to 1100 FPS as far as a gun to use one of the new compact version with correct stock dimensions and a 24” or a 26” bbl will be fine
She won’t be shooting in the Olympics any time soon so no need to go over the top with equipment
As far as the theory of going to a club and trying out guns it is just that she is 5’3” not a single gun will work for her . Also experienced have there gun set up for themselves so not likely to fit to many other people
Thanks for the advice. Any recommendations on a particular model of compact 12 gauge for her? Overall I just want to make sure she can have a fun time shooting so she's more likely to join me at the range
.Falconflyer has it right. Felt recoil is a combination of many factors including the weight and the fit of the gun, the payload (shot weight) and velocity of the ammunition and the sensitivity and robustness of the shooter among other things. And these factors all interact in different ways.
Let’s start with the shooter, your wife. On the physical aspect, she is petite, most guns are made for adult males 5’8” to 5’10” at 160 to 180 pounds so for her most guns will be too heavy, be too long in the stock and large in the grip to be comfortable or easily controllable. Unless she is an athlete her muscle strength will also be considerably less than that of the average man so just raising the gun, mounting it and swinging it will likely be a struggle for her, especially because of the stock being too long and the comb too low. To her the gun will feel very heavy, clumsy and awkward. Then there is her mental attitude. In general women beginners have two main concerns and hitting the target isn’t one of them. #1. WILL IT HURT ME? #2. WILL I LOOK STUPID? #2 is easily dealt with, one on one initial instruction from a trusted, knowledgeable and patient instructor or mentor. Nobody else except perhaps yourself nearby.
#2 is where it gets complicated. Gun weight and shot weight & velocity have the most effect on kinetic recoil. Gun fit and to a lesser extent the length of time of the recoil pulse have the most effect on felt recoil. Remember, a poor gun mount will always produce more felt recoil, mount and stance are important.
So a heavier gun with a light load looks like the solution? Half right. Light loads yes, but if your wife is typical for her size and fitness level she will find a heavy gun too hard to mount and swing, nearly impossible if the stock is too long or the gun has forward weight bias for her because her arms will be stretched out. Ideally you can beg, borrow or buy a short stocked well balanced gun with small grips, then go with the lightest loads that you can find. Keep the gun on the lighter side, she won’t have the muscle strength to handle a 8 1/2 - 9 pound trap gun. This base will make the most felt difference but gas autoloaders, stock recoil reducers and even porting can build on this base.
Thanks for the info. I did have an initial dream of getting a 20 gauge for her that would also double as a bird gun for me but it seems that will be highly unlikely in order to provide her with a comfortable shooting experience.
A 300 outlander would be a good choice any gun that is not cable of a short 12.5”to13” pull will be useless to her also a bbl length of greater than 26” will be very difficult for to swing it will pull down on her
Also don’t get all worked up about felt recoil a 20 ga 1oz load 16.1 foot lbs a 12ga 17.1 ft lbs not even enough to talk about the tech winnies are all over data
She needs to be able to control the gun
35 years trap and skeet shooting upper classes oh and occasionally some clays shooting ��
Also don’t get all worked up about felt recoil a 20 ga 1oz load 16.1 foot lbs a 12ga 17.1 ft lbs not even enough to talk about the tech winnies are all over data
She needs to be able to control the gun
35 years trap and skeet shooting upper classes oh and occasionally some clays shooting ��
Struff, I wans't recommending an 8 pound clays gun. I was using the weight of it as an example of the relationship between gun weight, payload and velocity. I thought that would have been obvious.
