filler for low charge cast

WhelanLad

WhelanLad

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hey guys, i forgot the deets for castboolits an although searched there wanted to get some replies to my Qs here.

filler for cases, with low charges in larger capacity in my Case- pun intended- the 375win- i believe utilising case filler will help in consitant burn an pressure rates , i believe i am currently a bit hit an miss pending on how the rifle was (pointed up or down) before firing...

my Q is- pillows? that sorta fluffy stuff.. im not sure what to call it... Can i use it to fill the gap to hold powder down?

Q is, im not in high pressure area to begin with , well below - at 3855wcf pressures* but does burning this other stuff increase pressure to be concerned?

what else can i use that i might have handy around the house :D

thank you
 
WhelanLad said:
hey guys, i forgot the deets for castboolits an although searched there wanted to get some replies to my Qs here.

filler for cases, with low charges in larger capacity in my Case- pun intended- the 375win- i believe utilising case filler will help in consitant burn an pressure rates , i believe i am currently a bit hit an miss pending on how the rifle was (pointed up or down) before firing...

my Q is- pillows? that sorta fluffy stuff.. im not sure what to call it... Can i use it to fill the gap to hold powder down?

Q is, im not in high pressure area to begin with , well below - at 3855wcf pressures* but does burning this other stuff increase pressure to be concerned?

what else can i use that i might have handy around the house :D

thank you
Click to expand...

Way back, I was using Kapok don't know if that stuff is still available.

Cheers
 
A member at C-Boolits used a type of foam you put in vases to stick artificial flowers. Press over a straight wall case to cut the "wad" and fill the case. I always wondered how styrofoam would work.

Or look for Pufflon if you want the "right" stuff.

I tried cotton, once, in 45-70... the guys complained about seeing balls of fire crossing their lines. To be honest, I saw them too :).
 
Florists' foam is the term, KG.
Kapok works but is out of style.
Foam rope for insulating housing cracks works and is available in many diameters.
I started off with foam from Kynoch and they told me they prefer it as a filler if there's more than 3/8" air space, and that works for me with improved accuracy.
 
I had forgotten about the insulation rope, thanks. I remember it not compressing too much for bottlenecks, unfortunately.

mmmmm..., what about spray foam as a substitute to florist foam?
 
In low pressure reduced loads I use just enough pillow polyester fill to keep the light powder charge against the primer. Should expect this to increase pressure. Prevents delayed ignition.

For some loads listed in Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook they say to use a 1/2 gr dacron wad 5/8" square x 1/4" thick against the powder charge.
 
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Yup, I have used foam ear plugs, foam "rope" from building supply companies, and Polyester fill from pillows or a purchased from a quilter's fabric shop. Just don't add the extra weight to a maximum charge of fast burning powder, work up with the filler figured in from the start.
 
Is a book here - "Shooting the British Double Rifle" - by Graeme Wright - 3rd Edition - published in 2009 - the writer might be a countryman of yours? Not certain if your 375 Win "makes the grade" about the kinds of cartridges that he was discussing - but I see down to 240 Flanged is discussed. Seems to have been a thing what to do with all the space in those big boomers when swapping from original black powder to nitro powders. In various loadings that he gives - he suggests taking up space with up to 3 x 1/8" cork wads (p. 222 for 350 grain bullet in a 450 x 3 1/4" Black Powder to Nitro powder swap.)

Also from that same book:
p. 52 - " Since both fillers and duplex loads have potential problems, I always try to develop a load that did not require either."
p. 133 - "The cartridge was 375 Winchester with a reduced load of fast burning powder and a cast bullet - no wads. The shooting was done off-hand, standing. As a shot was about to be taken the muzzle was oriented upwards to settle the powder at the primer. The rifle then carefully lowered to the horizontal (keeping the powder at the primer end) and the shot fired. Within relatively few shots this load and technique also produced the classic chamber ring."
p. 134 - Wads and Fillers - "A variety of materials can be used; cork, felt, Dacron and kapok have been used for many years. In later times foam and shot pellet buffer have also been used."
p.138 - "For my part, I have used all possible types of wads/filler arrangements; however these days I generally prefer foam."

Is a lot that he discusses - I just read an experience that he had - like a .500 of some sort - was multiple flat "wads" used - after some bouncing around in a 4x4 truck - appeared to him that the wads had loosened and slightly turned sideways - within the cartridge - and some powder got ahead of the wad, behind the bullet - with very much not expected results - I suspect why he generally does not appear to think much about using filler wads in these kind of cartridges for hunting - although he has had good results with them - if they did not move within the case.

So I have this book because it was recommended in some other reading - at the time, I was looking for a "filler" for small amount of fast powder in 458 Win Mag cases - I never followed that up - but is a big bag here of "Care Mail" brand foam "Peanuts" for shipping and packing. Label makes an "ado" that it is "Biodegradable" and dissolves in water - so cylinder shaped - lets guesstimate perhaps 3.5 cm to 4 cm long by 1.5 cm to 2.0 cm diameter. Label on the bag has picture of a plant - says is made from 95% Renewable Resource and is claimed to be "static free". I have this to use as filler material in 458 Win Mag - from that other reading that I can not find just now - that did recommend that Graeme Wright book as the source of the idea.
 
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WhelanLad said:
filler for cases, with low charges in larger capacity in my Case- pun intended- the 375win- i believe utilising case filler will help in consitant burn an pressure rates , i believe i am currently a bit hit an miss pending on how the rifle was (pointed up or down) before firing...

my Q is- pillows? that sorta fluffy stuff.. im not sure what to call it... Can i use it to fill the gap to hold powder down?

Q is, im not in high pressure area to begin with , well below - at 3855wcf pressures* but does burning this other stuff increase pressure to be concerned?

what else can i use that i might have handy around the house :D

thank you
Click to expand...

I've used pillow stuffing before in straightwall cases with no problems. Your mileage may vary, depending on the powder choice and potential pressures. Which powder/s are you using? Sometimes simply bumping the charge a few grains can make erratic velocities go away (assuming you're well below the upper pressure limits).
 
I use Dacron in reduced loads as a filler
you will have to reduce your load a bit and work up

ht tps://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-109280.html
from the post above
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I have for many, many years found dacron (polyester fill) to be the best "filler". I use a filler only when appropriate. Many think I always use a filler with every powder....I DO NOT!!!! The use of the filler can cause problems if not used correctly and when appropriate. If the powder is not correct for the bullet/cartridge combination then the filler is not going to make it "right". Many want to use a specific powder for a cartridge because the powder is "cheap" or because "they have a lot of it". There are lots of powders that are not only poor choices to use but that can be dangerous if used in an inappropriate bullet/cartridge combination. Do yourself a favor if you are wanting to use an inappropriate powder (usually "no data" available is an indication the powder might be inappropriate) and get an appropriate powder. You will save yourself a lot of frustration. The use of the dacron filler only makes an appropriate powder perform better. The dacron filler will not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I don't use the dacron filler or a wad with the fast to medium burning "fast" pistol /shotgun type powders. I find one of these fast burning powders that is fast enough to ignite and burn efficiently at the velocity I want and avoid using a filler with them.

I almost always use the dacron filler in rifle cases with the slower “fast” burning powders (4227, 4759, 5744, 4198, etc. with lighter medium weight bullets for the cartridge; i.e. 140 - 165 gr bullets in .30/.31 cals of 30-30 through '06 case capacity), the medium burning powders (RL7, 3031, 4895, etc.) up through the slow burning powders (RL19, AA4350, H4831SC, RL22, 3100, etc.) that give around 80% or less loading density under medium to heavy weight bullets for the cartridge; i.e. 170 - 220+ gr bullets in .30/.31 cals. Those examples are for the .30/.31 cals but the same guidance applies to other calibers. The dacron filler is used only between the powder and base of the bullet.

The “dacron” is polyester fill as commonly found in pillows and toys. It also comes in sheets called “batting”. It can be obtained very reasonably at most any fabric store.

The dacron batting comes in various thicknesses. I prefer that which is about 5/8" thick. My wife recently bought me 10 yards which will give many, many thousands of cast bullet loads. With this current batch of batting I cut it initially across the width into strips about 3/4" wide. I then "eyeball" cut 1/2" wide chunks which is close to 3/4 gr.

A smaller chunk is cut for 1/2 gr and larger for a larger amount. I've cut some chunks that weight 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 grs and have them in a "snack" baggie stuck on a poster board above my loading bench for quick reference when I need to cut new chunks. The batting will run thin and thick throughout the sheet so I again just "eyeball it" based on the thickness of the batting when cutting the chunks.

Pretty extensive tests have demonstrated that the weight of the filler does not have to be exact, only close. What is important is that there is enough so that it “fills" the space between powder and bullet. A little too much hurts nothing but too little poses problems. That's why I have the different size "chunks" so I can use the right size for the case capacity I am filling. For example; with most medium burning powders (3031, 4895, 4064) in and '06 to function an M1 a 3/4 gr dacron filler is about right. With slower powders that give a higher loading density like 4831 a 1/2 gr filler is about right.

I use a section of .22 cal cleaning rod in cartridges of .30 - .375 cal to push the Dacron chunk inside the case just so it is all in. The 6 to 10" section gives plenty to hold onto and sufficient "feel". Merely hold the chunk of dacron over the case mouth and shove it in with the rod. Sometimes it takes a couple three pokes to ensure all is inside the case mouth. I poke the chunks in until all the dacron is at the bottom of the neck or at least all in the case. It doesn’t matter exactly where just so long as you don’t tamp it down on the powder as a wad and leaved a space between the base of the bullet and the dacron.

What you want to do is push it in to let the base of the bullet finish pushing it down and adding any compression against the powder. Thus I do not push it down on the powder but let the bullet do that when the bullet is seated. Using the right size chunk of dacron this method then provides a "filler" in the air space between the powder and base of the bullet.

A small length of coat hanger works for the .22-7mm cartridges and an unsharpened pencil works well for .45 cals. With the charged cases in a loading block I simply hold the chunk of dacron over the case mouth and push it in with the rod. It is quite easy and a lot of “precision is not required, just get the dacron into the case and let the bullet finish pushing it down.

Larry Gibson
 
hey update--

I stuffed some TP into 4 rounds and went out to test- i was using the original low load-
3 had fed primer, one had Rem primer.........

3 went bang first up, one didnt - shots strung horizontally further an further from X an noted shiney starfish at end of muzzle.......

hard cast non checked an i see leading which possibly jogs my memory back to doing this ? i seem to think i had tried it once to no avail an the need for Gas checks rings a bell ?

sooo- i liked the powder position better , i may have to look into gas checking but feel like ive been here before hence down loading for no leading , less recoil etc
 
i got a bunch of the pillow stuffing stuff to try out!
awesome.

my nan does alot of knitting an crafting pillows an such..... was a good start !

thanks Nanny!

now to get some copper wool........... :D
 
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