Filling holes in 1895 receiver?

Bigcrigger

Bigcrigger

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Howdy all, picked up a Winchester 1895 deluxe flatside the other day. Someone along this rifles past decided to drill and tap the receiver for what I would assume was a side mounted scope. What are my options for filling these holes permanently? I plan on restoring the gun so i can have a nice 1895 flatside which can be shot without shame or concern to value.

What are my options here? Filling the holes with screws and cutting/filing them down until they’re flush? Maybe welding them in?

These flatside deluxes are pretty rare and I’d like the finished product to look as nice as possible.


here’s a picture!
 
KotKotofeich said:
I'd put screws but cut them so they sit below flush and weld on top, then file/polish. You can get a almost perfect surface this way. Getting the bluing/patina to match may be a little tricky...

(Can't see the picture. Maybe yet.)
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My one concern with welding is whether or not the steel alloy that was used in these receivers is conducive to that sort of repair. I can’t find much online about it.

https://imgur.com/a/JevEuVl
 
The idea to cut a screw in that hole - screws are not 100% of the thread - so you will end up with an "air gap" at the surface - like a semi-circle or more than half-a-circle. Leads to welding or other filling - then leads to dressing and polishing to match up to original looking surface (which may not be perfectly polished or flat - then to get colour to match. Entire process is not for "faint of heart" - about most everything working against you for every step. Not sure, but your picture seems to show holes were tapped with dull tap - some metal "thrown up" around the hole, rather than cut off when tapping?

Easy enough to end up with visible "dots" where the holes were - they are nicely polished / nicely blued, but not a prefect match to rest of the receiver, so very visible.

On the ones like that I just resigned myself to run in correct thread screw that has a head to it - done - leave like that with blued screw heads showing - I presume it was not you that drilled and tapped - is part of the history / story of that rifle. Multiple types of screw heads - for that application, probably would want to use "cheese head" type, versus type with taper on rear side of screw head - or cut taper into hole edge and screw in taper headed screws.
 
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Bigcrigger said:
My one concern with welding is whether or not the steel alloy that was used in these receivers is conducive to that sort of repair. I can’t find much online about it.

https://imgur.com/a/JevEuVl
Click to expand...

The steel on these is different for sure (going by what I've found on a 1887 and 1873s, never had to weld a 1895) My newest welder helps make tiny detailed work of this type easier (primeweld TIG325X with a foot pedal)...

If you have welding experience and good equipment you'll be fine.
 
What about JB welding screws and then cutting off the heads?

If you are going to weld, youre gonna have to grind the welds anyways.

Then can sand and blend. Did that to a stainless rifle and was not noticeable unless you really looked.
 
Potashminer said:
The idea to cut a screw in that hole - screws are not 100% of the thread - so you will end up with an "air gap" at the surface - like a semi-circle or more than half-a-circle. Leads to welding or other filling - then leads to dressing and polishing to match up to original looking surface (which may not be perfectly polished or flat - then to get colour to match. Entire process is not for "faint of heart" - about most everything working against you for every step. Not sure, but your picture seems to show holes were tapped with dull tap - some metal "thrown up" around the hole, rather than cut off when tapping?

Easy enough to end up with visible "dots" where the holes were - they are nicely polished / nicely blued, but not a prefect match to rest of the receiver, so very visible.

On the ones like that I just resigned myself to run in correct thread screw that has a head to it - done - leave like that with blued screw heads showing - I presume it was not you that drilled and tapped - is part of the history / story of that rifle. Multiple types of screw heads - for that application, probably would want to use "cheese head" type, versus type with taper on rear side of screw head - or cut taper into hole edge and screw in taper headed screws.
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I think I’ll probably end up giving it a shot with cutting the screws and dabbing a little weld (or jb weld!) on top of the cuts so it fills in a bit. I don’t mind filing or grinding it down. It wasn’t me who drilled or tapped into the rifle, I would be happy with filling the holes with screws but I feel like it would take away from the flatside appeal. I appreciate the advice and information a lot though!
 
OkayShooter said:
What about JB welding screws and then cutting off the heads?

If you are going to weld, youre gonna have to grind the welds anyways.

Then can sand and blend. Did that to a stainless rifle and was not noticeable unless you really looked.
Click to expand...
I think this is exactly what I’ll do. I have a bit of welding experience (CWB certified smaw/gmaw) but I don’t wanna risk doing any sort of damage to the receiver. I’ll see if I can find a little JB weld and some screws to fill the holes after work. Really looking forward to tinkering with this thing and getting it all fixed up. Thanks for all the advice and input everybody!!
 
OK, it is a flat side 95 with a pistol grip. That is a rare one.
Four unsightly holes.
Steel weld is a major undertaking. It is going to involve serious heat, dressing down the surface and refinishing. TIG would be the only process to use. Oxy-acetylene would cook good sized areas of the receiver, let alone MIG or SMAW. Done by skilled gunsmith, it isn't going to be cheap, and is likely going to reduce the value of the firearm.
JB Weld? It is a steel powder filled epoxy. Forget about it.
Install plugs, rivet the heads to fill the holes 100%, dress flush, touch up the finish. Produces a decent cosmetic result. The holes aren't gone, but there appearance is reduced dramatically. One again, a skilled hand is needed. I see the word "grind" and I cringe. Makes me wonder if a Dremel is going to be involved.
You've got a nice piece that has been blemished during its period of use - don't bugger it up with hacked up patchwork.
 
The lone single hole in the rear, id just put a filler screw as it would look like it belong.

The 2 close together and one by the screw. Id fill. I ended up putting tape around the holes and sanding the screws when I filled so minimize the damage.

If you got the skill.. Could grind the screw, then a flat slot and from the inside screw in. The grinded section should be mushroomed and fill better. But def some high spots on the tapped holes you need to knock down.
 
I have heard of many different techniques but have never seen a hole-fill that worked perfectly (invisible).
 
Rob said:
I have heard of many different techniques but have never seen a hole-fill that worked perfectly (invisible).
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Receiver is one type of metal and what you fill it with is another type of metal. Blueing takes a different colour depending on what metal it is used on. I have seen some excellent jobs done on the metal work but you can still see a difference in colour.
 
Here's a thought, although not exactly what the OP is looking for: How about sourcing a Lyman Model 21 or 38 peep sight, or Providence Tool Co.'s reproduction, for it. That would cover-up / hide most of the holes, which could have the correct size filler holes installed to further camouflage the desecration. It would also be period appropriate.lyman_21_sight.jpgWin95 Lyman 21.jpg
 
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jamesharrison said:
Here's a thought, although not exactly what the OP is looking for: How about sourcing a Lyman Model 21 or 38 peep sight, or Providence Tool Co.'s reproduction, for it. That would cover-up / hide most of the holes, which could have the correct size filler holes installed to further camouflage the desecration. It would also be period appropriate.View attachment 847704View attachment 847705
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Definitely will be looking into this. Thank you for the suggestion!!
 
James is right on. I suspect the rear most hole is for a Lyman 21, the 21 used the lever pin stop screw hole to mount on the front. The two holes side by side could be from a later receiver mounted peep like a Redfield 102D like I have on my 95. Or maybe it had some type of side mounted scope at some point. An original Lyman 21 will set you back at least $350 but I think it would cover all the holes and a much more usable sight than the standard barrel mounted sight.
 
if it was mine two options, assuming I could get to the back take a screw, heat to temper, thread in to the inside, cut the excess off and pein it over to tighten it in the hole, file flat using a thin plastic shim each side the screw to stop it marking reciever, final finish and dab of cold blue
other method same treatment of screw, thread it in, cut off and hit the surface with a Tig torch to pool the area, you would be amazed how a good Tig welder can do, file and blue
yes it will be visible but look better than the threaded holes
 
With threads - they are an incline plane - so will be a part that gets thinner and thinner as it nears the surface - why old school guys would often drill in and use a pin - so there are no threads involved at surface joint. Else, end up with a razor edge/wire edge that will break off - looks like hell.
 
Potashminer said:
With threads - they are an incline plane - so will be a part that gets thinner and thinner as it nears the surface - why old school guys would often drill in and use a pin - so there are no threads involved at surface joint. Else, end up with a razor edge/wire edge that will break off - looks like hell.
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That is exactly right!
There is one other way to avoid the ugliness of that visible ring of thread.
If you make a shallow, perfectly centered counterbore over the hole, and then take a fillister head screw and machine the head to have an interference fit in the counterbore.
Once it's dressed down it's the most invisible repair. Unfortunately, it's outcome directly depends on doing perfectly concentric machining. You absolutely cannot do this well without having a milling machine and knowing how to use it.
Welding with a perfectly matched filler has the potential to be a better repair, but also has even greater potential to look NASTY once it's blued.
If it was mine, I would put a reciever sight on it.
 
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