Final sanity check for a first time reloader!

D

dlau

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Well I finally got around to setting up my Lee reloading kit, and even after reading Modern Reloading and a ton of stuff on the web, I just want to double check my process and numbers with the gurus here that have actual experience. :)

I am reloading .308 for my 26" Savage. I am using 155 A-Max with IMR 4064.

I took a dummy round and carefully chambered it. After removing the round, I checked the marks and reseated the bullet into the case to find an OAL of 2.822"

I plan to start at .015 off the lands, so I'll seat the bullet to acheive an OAL of 2.807.

I checked out the starting loads from the excellent Hogdon site, as well as Modern Reloading (albeit for 150gn) and they have starting values of 42 and 42.3 gn respectively.

So, I think I have all the numbers I need. Again, a final sanity would be much appreciated.

Regards,
 
Personally I would start with the SAAMI OAL vs. a measured one for a little while. The SAAMI specs are a safe and generalized length that will shoot safely and reliably in any commercial rifle in your caliber. When you start monkeying with OAL you start running into pressure issues very quickly. An untrained eye may miss the early signs of pressure in your cartridges or your action.

If I've misunderstood where your starting point is I apologize but if not I really recommend you don't play with the COAL until you gain some experience. For what it's worth.
 
sounds good! you should have no issues. but, what did you measure coal with? (comparator, or just a micrometer). I found the comparator a must. Im using 155 gn A-Max in my Model 12, but im using Varget.

If your using once fired brass, just deprime/re-size, trim, prime, charge load, and seat your bullets..... let us know how it works out for you, or if you have any issues/questions.

I plan on getting neck sizing die/s this winter, but the full size LEE RGB dies are working fine for me for now.

if your looking to make the most accurate bullet, i suggest making three different ones to start with, go with your coal findings (-.010), and go from there, and compare. I found that my .223 liked a jump of .015 off the lands, and was an insane difference in accuracy, compared to jamming it. As suggested, load your powder at about the minimum to start with, and you'll be fine.
 
i don't have a problem with the OP running just off the lands as long as he/she starts at the bottom with the powder charge.saami is just basically like building code for ammo....minimum.every handloader tailors their own ammo for their particular rifle.just take your time and double check everything when learning the process,and don't be afraid to ask questions if you are unsure.there are many here who will help you and you will not get flamed.keep a critical eye on the fired cases,pay attention to the primer and case head.it sounds like you've got a clue and it will come easily to you.
 
I used a digital caliper, and specifically used a technique as described by Nosler.

1) use a felt to mark up the bullet
2) hand insert bullet into once fired brass (may need a slight crimp to hold it), enough to get it started.
3) carefully chamber and extract the dummy bullet.
4) look for the mark on the bullet to see how far the bullet was inserted into the case; insert it that far and measure.

This is the first I've heard of a comparator, so I guess it's a good thing I checked here first.

I'm also nervous about missing early signs of pressure... but if the SAAMI OAL is 2.800, and my measurement is 2.807, that should be close enough?

Once I get the baseline down, would I change the distance from the lands, or change the amount of powder? One variable at a time. :)
 
Well I finally got around to setting up my Lee reloading kit, and even after reading Modern Reloading and a ton of stuff on the web, I just want to double check my process and numbers with the gurus here that have actual experience.

I am reloading .308 for my 26" Savage. I am using 155 A-Max with IMR 4064.

I took a dummy round and carefully chambered it. After removing the round, I checked the marks and reseated the bullet into the case to find an OAL of 2.822"

I plan to start at .015 off the lands, so I'll seat the bullet to acheive an OAL of 2.807.

I checked out the starting loads from the excellent Hogdon site, as well as Modern Reloading (albeit for 150gn) and they have starting values of 42 and 42.3 gn respectively.

So, I think I have all the numbers I need. Again, a final sanity would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

You are on the right track, just work up the loads slowly, and take into consideration that the pressure will climb when the temperatures warm up next spring.
 
dlau said:
I used a digital caliper, and specifically used a technique as described by Nosler.

1) use a felt to mark up the bullet
2) hand insert bullet into once fired brass (may need a slight crimp to hold it), enough to get it started.
3) carefully chamber and extract the dummy bullet.
4) look for the mark on the bullet to see how far the bullet was inserted into the case; insert it that far and measure.

This is the first I've heard of a comparator, so I guess it's a good thing I checked here first.

I'm also nervous about missing early signs of pressure... but if the SAAMI OAL is 2.800, and my measurement is 2.807, that should be close enough?

Once I get the baseline down, would I change the distance from the lands, or change the amount of powder? One variable at a time. :)
Click to expand...

your prolly in the ballpark, I suggest to back it off a bit at first, as you originally suggested. The thing is, if your not using a comparator, your loads can vary .010 from the ogive as is, so getting it setup to be .015 off is difficult measuring with a micrometer. You may think your off, but you may be touching, or closer than you think.

I made a cartridge for checking my COAL by slicing a few thin cuts in the neck, and drilling the primer pocket out to fit a thin carbon rod. Put the bullet into the cartridge deep, insert into the chamber and seat tight. Then use the rod to push on the bullet through the cartridge (through the enlarged hole in the primer pocket). Once it touches the lands, I pull it out with forceps, and then measure COAL with my comparator. It takes a few attempts to get it right, if you push the bullet too hard, it sticks in the barrel, I took four measurements and used the average to determine the COAL to lands, then made my loads. some at 0, some off .010, and 015.

I'm surprised you found your COAL to lands to be so cloase to 2.800, as mine is something like 2.891 touching. (im going to remeasure tomorrow, with a different case)

i hope this makes sense. :)

ginnz.
 
Just a suggestion. Run at least 3 dummy rounds the way you stated and compare. Sometimes just one will stick slightly in the lands and give a longer OAL.
 
It never fails! Confusion, confusion.
The least of your worries, or dangers, in loading your 308 is the depth you seat the bullet. You have stated you will start with the minimum load reccommended in Hodgdon's loading charts, so there is no worry whether the bullet is touching the lands, or 1/4 inch away from the lands.
If there is a cannalure in the bullet, seat to the distance for crimping, but don't crimp it. If there is no marking on the bullet, seat it so the bolt will close, provided the bullet is deep enough to be held firmly by the case neck, and shoot away.
I am critical of those who gave you confusing advice, over matters that you may be involved in after you have done considerable reloading and shooting, but not for a beginning reloader.
 
dlau it sound like you have some good ammo/data made up to shoot. Hope it shoots accurate for you!
 
if your planning on jamming the lands you should work your up the load jammed as it will build more pressure then jumping you can always back it down after., there is some good reading on the subject on snipershide reloading for long range threads.


I usually run a .5gr incremental ladder test first, then fine tune .1gr powder with groups, then mess with seating depths with groups.
 
caustic said:
if your planning on jamming the lands you should work your up the load jammed as it will build more pressure then jumping you can always back it down after., there is some good reading on the subject on snipershide reloading for long range threads.


I usually run a .5gr incremental ladder test first, then fine tune .1gr powder with groups, then mess with seating depths with groups.
Click to expand...

That's what I was suggesting. Running to the lands can cause pressure issues, and even though the OP sounded like he has good data he did state he is a 1st time reloader. Why introduce that variable on the first time he loads? It's nice to have accurate rounds of course but run a few batches with the SAAMI length until you're practiced up.
 
To the OP, please let me know how the 155 A-Max's work out for you, as I've been working on building the best load i can for my Model 12 .308 (1-10 twist). I have been able to get excellent 100 y groups, and at 250m, its ok as well, its the 500+ meter shooting i want to perfect. I'm not sure the 155 gr is going to be able to get the 1-2" groups i'd like to be able to get at those ranges....

I'm going to buy a new high zoom long range scope just for developing the best .308 I can this winter, that will certainly help me get to where i want to go. im not sure if i should start developing with the box of 168 gr A-Max's i got here....
 
The trouble with being a rookie, is not being able to sort out the wheat from the chaff. The variable you are playing around with is the least variable in the grand scheme of things. The principal variables are bullet weight/spec and powder - which you have already chosen. Charge weight comes next.
What you need to learn is consistency, meticulous record keeping, and how to shoot. FWIW - I reload to 30 thou off the lands, sometimes more if I'm reloading for two rifles simultaneously. I have no problem dialing in a load that makes the rifle more precise than me. I do this because I like a bit of "margin" - you may find that the ogive profile will vary substantially from box to box of the same brand of bullet!
 
Will do! And much appreciation to all the tips and tricks- increment the charge and keep good records!

The 155s were recommended by MysticPrecision based on my setup. Unfortunately my local range only stretches out to 200yards, but I know what my rifle did with commercial ammo so we'll see how these compare.

Now if the rain would just stop pouring down... :)


ginnz said:
To the OP, please let me know how the 155 A-Max's work out for you, as I've been working on building the best load i can for my Model 12 .308 (1-10 twist). I have been able to get excellent 100 y groups, and at 250m, its ok as well, its the 500+ meter shooting i want to perfect. I'm not sure the 155 gr is going to be able to get the 1-2" groups i'd like to be able to get at those ranges....

I'm going to buy a new high zoom long range scope just for developing the best .308 I can this winter, that will certainly help me get to where i want to go. im not sure if i should start developing with the box of 168 gr A-Max's i got here....
Click to expand...
 
Today I did a ladder test with my 24" Savage model 10 (.308). It was my first time reloading for .308 and first time reloading for a rifle. I didn't worry about how far the bullet was from the rifling and just concentrated on consistency. I used IMR 3031 with 168 grain Hornady BTHP (really a boat tail 'open point') with an overall length of 2.8. I used the reloading data from the Hodgdon website. I started at 39.0 grains of powder and worked up to 42.0 in 0.5 increments. Using the rounds with 41.0 grains of powder I needed a little bit more force to open the bolt. At 42.0 grains of powder the recoil was noticeably greater and I could really feel it in my shoulder (uncomfortable and the muzzle jump was getting excessive). I don't think I'll go over 41.0 grains next time. I used the Lee neck sizing die and my groups were under an inch at 100 yards. The only thing that threw off the test were loose rings on the scope. Every time I used the turrets things were way off (but group size was still tight). The next time I go out I'll just use all 39.0 gr 40.0 gr and do a box test on the scope and then do the ladder test again.

This might not help your specific situation, but it might be something you can use as a comparison.

Tight groups,

SB
 
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H4831 said:
The least of your worries, or dangers, in loading your 308 is the depth you seat the bullet. You have stated you will start with the minimum load reccommended in Hodgdon's loading charts, so there is no worry whether the bullet is touching the lands, or 1/4 inch away from the lands.

If there is a cannalure in the bullet, seat to the distance for crimping, but don't crimp it. If there is no marking on the bullet, seat it so the bolt will close, provided the bullet is deep enough to be held firmly by the case neck, and shoot away.
Click to expand...

What he said.


cosmic said:
The trouble with being a rookie, is not being able to sort out the wheat from the chaff. The variable you are playing around with is the least variable in the grand scheme of things. The principal variables are bullet weight/spec and powder - which you have already chosen. Charge weight comes next.
What you need to learn is consistency, meticulous record keeping, and how to shoot.
Click to expand...

Ditto.
 
Your first load sounds perfect.

When making ammo for others, I use 2.800", unless i know they have a Remington, in which case I load 2.820"

Your powder charge is a good START load. next time you can try 43.0, 43.5 and 44.
 
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