Finally - I got a response from the govt as to why AR15s are restricted!

[VanIsler]

So, who here has contacted the govt/their MP and asked that the law be changed? And what answer did you get?

I did, asked them to change the laws so we can fire our hand guns and AR 15s where we can shoot our far more dangerous and effective hunting rifles. I got this canned response:

Dear Mr. X:

Thank you for writing to the Prime Minister. In your e-mail, you raised an issue that falls within the portfolio of the Honourable Vic Toews, Minister of Public Safety.

Please be assured that your comments have been carefully noted. I have taken the liberty of forwarding your e-mail to Minister Toews. I am certain that the Minister will wish to give your views every consideration.

For more information on the Government's initiatives, you may wish to visit the Prime Minister's Web site, at www.pm.gc.ca.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to write.

M.F. Bustos
Manager/Gestionnaire
Executive Correspondence Services
for the Prime Minister's Office
Services de la correspondance
de la haute direction
pour le Cabinet du Premier ministre

Haven't heard anything from Vic or anyone else regarding the relaxation of restrictions imposed on us...

 

[Jäger1]

The government has stated it has no desire to change the current classification system. So, taking that as an endorsement of the classification system, pressure should be applied to use that system to classify all firearms.

This means scrapping the restricted lists entirely and using the criteria laid out in the current legislation to determine a firearm's class. Forget the AR15, let's save them all.

So you'd have to slap an 18.5" barrel on your AR to go hunting with it. That'll do for now.

Baby steps, folks. Small, digestable baby steps.

 

[X-man]

But it seems like we're not doing anything to contact our own mp's. Out of all these posts, no one has actually said, "yes, I wrote my MP". All I did was talk to mine... and because of the response, I basically gave up on him- I'll write to Vic Toews and cc the PM instead.

I like the CSSA's "Trucks have changed since grampa got his.... so have hunting rifles" picture on their website:
http://www.cdnshootingsports.org ... the non-gun owning public and various Fudds.

 

[mmattockx]

So, to get back to my original question, has anyone written a letter, etc, about de-resticting (if that's a word) the AR15, and got a response? If so, would you share that response?

I have written to my MP (CPC) and suggested that both the named prohibited and restricted lists be abolished and all firearms classified according to their technical specifications as the law states. I also suggested that the RCMP not be involved in classifications, which should be done by a group of industry experts. No answer on either item.


Mark

 

[BCP]

I believe the CSSA was looking into this (?) Perhaps give them a call..

The government has stated it has no desire to change the current classification system. So, taking that as an endorsement of the classification system, pressure should be applied to use that system to classify all firearms.

This means scrapping the restricted lists entirely and using the criteria laid out in the current legislation to determine a firearm's class. Forget the AR15, let's save them all.

So you'd have to slap an 18.5" barrel on your AR to go hunting with it. That'll do for now.

Baby steps, folks. Small, digestable baby steps.

I have written to my MP (CPC) and suggested that both the named prohibited and restricted lists be abolished and all firearms classified according to their technical specifications as the law states. I also suggested that the RCMP not be involved in classifications, which should be done by a group of industry experts. No answer on either item.


Mark

On one of the past episodes of CRR, or was it CRR Network, they interviewed Tony Bernardo of CILA/CSSA. He mentioned they are working with the current government to form a firearms advisory committee that will be comprised of knowledgeable personnel in the firearms field. This committee will then classify firearms instead of the RCMP, who should just enforce the law. He also mentioned they are pushing for this committee to have the ability to reclassify firearms that were already previously classified. That means the ARs as well as a slew of other firearms affected by OIC may have a chance to finally be properly classified. He also mentioned a similar committee existed under the Mulroney era when they needed a way to identify what firearms are allowed, but it fell apart after the lieberals infamous C-68 came into affect.

 

[nntw]

Thanks - I was interested in knowing whether the govt was responding to people's inquiries, and if the inquiries were being taken seriously.

Bottom line, doesn't seem like the govt is interested in 'changing the rules'. The LGR abolition was supposedly primarily for the benefit of the rural community, but I don't really see the 'black rifle' fans being as important a demographic to the Conservatives (or anyone else for that matter). Still, guess we have to try....

Thanks to all who reported on their experiences regarding this issue.

 

[mmattockx]

Thanks - I was interested in knowing whether the govt was responding to people's inquiries, and if the inquiries were being taken seriously.

You generally don't get to see if they are doing anything about it until something gets announced after the backroom work is done. They can't very well announce their future plans all the time and let the opposition have more time to piss and moan about it. So, comments will often seem to go into a black hole and get little feedback. Then, 6 months later a new initiative is announced.

Bottom line, doesn't seem like the govt is interested in 'changing the rules'. The LGR abolition was supposedly primarily for the benefit of the rural community, but I don't really see the 'black rifle' fans being as important a demographic to the Conservatives (or anyone else for that matter). Still, guess we have to try...

First, almost no politicians are really interested in rolling laws back and increasing freedom for the citizens. Almost all people in government firmly believe that the answer to all problems is more government. The CPC will be no different in this regard.

Second, the reason no one gives two s**ts about black rifles is that there are only ~500,000 restricted firearms registered in this country and most of them are handguns. All restricted owners combined are not a big enough group to influence much of anything. There are 4-7 million firearms owners in this country and only a few hundred thousand of them own restricteds.

It was worth the fight for the CPC to roll back the LGR and curry favour with 4+ million voters. It isn't worth their efforts to help black rifle owners and risk alienating the urban centers that are largely anti-gun and hold a lot of voters.


Mark

 

[Leonidas]

Here is one I sent last week, no response yet;


The Honourable Vic Toews
Minister of Public Safety
House of Commons
Ottawa, Canada K1A 0A6



Dear Minister Toews,


I am writing to urge you to consider the reclassification of AR-15 rifles which have been designed as sporting firearms (primarily for hunting) but which are currently classified as “restricted” by Order in Council. Examples of these hunting/ sporting variants of the AR-15 are the Remington R-15 (appendix Fig. 1) and R-25 rifles and it is my respectful submission that these rifles are currently misclassified. They are intended and certainly suitable for a legitimate sporting purpose and the continued misclassification of them is a disservice to Canadian hunters, sport shooters and retailers.

Remington is a major manufacturer of sporting rifles and shotguns. The R-15 and R-25 differ from each other mainly by caliber with the R-15 (.223 Remington) designed for small game hunting/ pest control and the R-25 (.308 Winchester) as a big game hunting rifle. These rifles and other similar hunting/ sporting variants are restricted as variants of the AR-15 rifle. The AR-15 was also the basis for the C-7 rifles currently used by the Canadian Forces; however these military variants have distinguishing characteristics (such as the capability to fire automatically) which preclude their use in hunting/ sport and have been prohibited in Canada for decades.
It is perhaps trite to suggest that the AR-15 and variants were restricted for reasons more to do with cosmetics than function. Indeed the most rational amendment may be to de-restrict the semi automatic only AR-15 altogether.

As you are no doubt aware there exist other designs intended primarily for hunting such as the Ruger Mini-14 (appendix Fig 2) which is functionally no different from the R-15 and yet is unrestricted; likely due do to a more commonplace appearance. In my view previous drafters of the legislation were intimidated by the appearance of the AR-15 and restricted this rifle design based on its appearance rather than on a rationale assessment of the design, which is functionally no different than many other unrestricted hunting/ sporting rifles.

There exists a significant precedent in Canada for the reclassification of a specific variant of a firearm to a less restrictive class. In 1998 the (then Liberal) Government of Canada reclassified variants of the AK-47 assault rifle from prohibited to non-restricted (see footnote). These variants were the Valmet M-78 (appendix fig 2) and Valmet Hunter. The rationale for this reclassification was that these rifles were found to be suitable for hunting despite the fact that their design was derivative from a military assault rifle infamous around the world. I am asking you to make a change which is far less contentious.

The sporting variants of the AR-15, such as Remington R-15 and R-25 which I am urging you to reclassify through an Order in Council are not only suitable for hunting; they were also designed and manufactured specifically as hunting rifles. They lack “assault rifle”/ military characteristics (bayonet lugs and automatic fire) found in the design of their “cousins” in the C-7 series. They are functionally no different than thousands of similar hunting rifles which are currently unrestricted in Canada and I know that myself and many other law abiding hunters would very much like to be able to use them for their intended purpose.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,


###############
CPC # ############



CC: Honourable Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada; Honorable Lee Richardson, MP; Honorable Rob Anders, MP; Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee (CFAC).




( Footnote in letter)
See Canada Gazette 132, No. 20 — September 30, 1998; “This class comprises the paramilitary firearms which are currently prohibited weapons pursuant to Orders in Council made under subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code as it now stands. No new firearms are being added to the class. One firearm, the Valmet Hunter, including the Valmet Hunter Auto and the Valmet M78, has been deleted from the class, as it has been determined that it is not essentially a paramilitary firearm and is suitable for hunting purposes.”



Appendix (Showing photos in my letter)


Figure 1: Remington R-15 Hunting Rifle (currently restricted)



Figure 2: Ruger Mini 14 (unrestricted)


_____________________________________________________________________

Figure 3: Valmet M-78 (Currently reclassified as unrestricted by Order in Council)












The Honourable Lee Richardson, MP
1333 8th Street SW, Suite 333
Calgary, Alberta
T2R 1M6


Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee (CFAC)
Public Safety Canada
269 Laurier Avenue West
Ottawa, Canada K1A 0P8

The Honourable Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada
Office of the Prime Minister
80 Wellington Street
Ottawa, ON K1A 0A2

The Honourable Vic Toews
Minister of Public Safety
House of Commons
Ottawa, Canada K1A 0A6

 

[CanAm]

We were reviewing an interesting document today from 1994 stating that the AR and Mini-14 were to be banned.

 

[Leonidas]

We were reviewing an interesting document today from 1994 stating that the AR and Mini-14 were to be banned

Which in a way should be encouraging...

 

[aspect]

...almost no politicians are really interested in rolling laws back and increasing freedom for the citizens. Almost all people in government firmly believe that the answer to all problems is more government. The CPC will be no different in this regard.

...

It was worth the fight for the CPC to roll back the LGR and curry favour with 4+ million voters. It isn't worth their efforts to help black rifle owners and risk alienating the urban centers that are largely anti-gun and hold a lot of voters.

^ this.

 

[Dr van Nostran]

We were reviewing an interesting document today from 1994 stating that the AR and Mini-14 were to be banned.

Ah yes, the document that accompanied the re classifications under C68.

I often wonder how they would have prohibited the AR15, given that it was to be classified as restricted by legislation, not OIC.

But that was the plan. Give the AR15 a temporary reprieve as a sop to DCRA and ban everything semi automatic; Mini 14, SKS, M14s, ect,ect .....

It all kind of got lost in the controversy that followed C68. It's kind of hard to get people to register their guns when you are banning other people's guns.

 

[Teac]

Would like first hand info, please, not opinions.

There are many posts that say we should write to the govt to have the classification of the AR15 and its variants made non-restricted.

Who has written to their MP, or to Mr Toews, etc, and what responses have you got? Are they just 'taking it under advisement', have they provided reasons WHY these firearms are restricted, what?

Thanks, and as mentioned, am curious about ACTUAL FEEDBACK, not "yeah, it shouldn't be restricted, we need to do something" posts.

I found the official statement:

"Dear Citizen,

we, the government know what is best for you and in our infinite wisdom have classified the AR-15 rifle as restricted because it is very scary looking and no good citizen has a need for a very scary looking rifle!

And because f**k you! Thats why!.

Sincerly, Your Governement"

 

[luresaregood]

can I use this??

Here is one I sent last week, no response yet;


The Honourable Vic Toews
Minister of Public Safety
House of Commons
Ottawa, Canada K1A 0A6



Dear Minister Toews,


I am writing to urge you to consider the reclassification of AR-15 rifles which have been designed as sporting firearms (primarily for hunting) but which are currently classified as “restricted” by Order in Council. Examples of these hunting/ sporting variants of the AR-15 are the Remington R-15 (appendix Fig. 1) and R-25 rifles and it is my respectful submission that these rifles are currently misclassified. They are intended and certainly suitable for a legitimate sporting purpose and the continued misclassification of them is a disservice to Canadian hunters, sport shooters and retailers.

Remington is a major manufacturer of sporting rifles and shotguns. The R-15 and R-25 differ from each other mainly by caliber with the R-15 (.223 Remington) designed for small game hunting/ pest control and the R-25 (.308 Winchester) as a big game hunting rifle. These rifles and other similar hunting/ sporting variants are restricted as variants of the AR-15 rifle. The AR-15 was also the basis for the C-7 rifles currently used by the Canadian Forces; however these military variants have distinguishing characteristics (such as the capability to fire automatically) which preclude their use in hunting/ sport and have been prohibited in Canada for decades.
It is perhaps trite to suggest that the AR-15 and variants were restricted for reasons more to do with cosmetics than function. Indeed the most rational amendment may be to de-restrict the semi automatic only AR-15 altogether.

As you are no doubt aware there exist other designs intended primarily for hunting such as the Ruger Mini-14 (appendix Fig 2) which is functionally no different from the R-15 and yet is unrestricted; likely due do to a more commonplace appearance. In my view previous drafters of the legislation were intimidated by the appearance of the AR-15 and restricted this rifle design based on its appearance rather than on a rationale assessment of the design, which is functionally no different than many other unrestricted hunting/ sporting rifles.

There exists a significant precedent in Canada for the reclassification of a specific variant of a firearm to a less restrictive class. In 1998 the (then Liberal) Government of Canada reclassified variants of the AK-47 assault rifle from prohibited to non-restricted (see footnote). These variants were the Valmet M-78 (appendix fig 2) and Valmet Hunter. The rationale for this reclassification was that these rifles were found to be suitable for hunting despite the fact that their design was derivative from a military assault rifle infamous around the world. I am asking you to make a change which is far less contentious.

The sporting variants of the AR-15, such as Remington R-15 and R-25 which I am urging you to reclassify through an Order in Council are not only suitable for hunting; they were also designed and manufactured specifically as hunting rifles. They lack “assault rifle”/ military characteristics (bayonet lugs and automatic fire) found in the design of their “cousins” in the C-7 series. They are functionally no different than thousands of similar hunting rifles which are currently unrestricted in Canada and I know that myself and many other law abiding hunters would very much like to be able to use them for their intended purpose.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,


###############
CPC # ############



CC: Honourable Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada; Honorable Lee Richardson, MP; Honorable Rob Anders, MP; Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee (CFAC).




( Footnote in letter)
See Canada Gazette 132, No. 20 — September 30, 1998; “This class comprises the paramilitary firearms which are currently prohibited weapons pursuant to Orders in Council made under subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code as it now stands. No new firearms are being added to the class. One firearm, the Valmet Hunter, including the Valmet Hunter Auto and the Valmet M78, has been deleted from the class, as it has been determined that it is not essentially a paramilitary firearm and is suitable for hunting purposes.”



Appendix (Showing photos in my letter)


Figure 1: Remington R-15 Hunting Rifle (currently restricted)



Figure 2: Ruger Mini 14 (unrestricted)


_____________________________________________________________________

Figure 3: Valmet M-78 (Currently reclassified as unrestricted by Order in Council)












The Honourable Lee Richardson, MP
1333 8th Street SW, Suite 333
Calgary, Alberta
T2R 1M6


Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee (CFAC)
Public Safety Canada
269 Laurier Avenue West
Ottawa, Canada K1A 0P8

The Honourable Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada
Office of the Prime Minister
80 Wellington Street
Ottawa, ON K1A 0A2

The Honourable Vic Toews
Minister of Public Safety
House of Commons
Ottawa, Canada K1A 0A6

 

[DaveMachine]

You know, if the AR15 was non-restricted I would only need one gun (ie one lower) for everything I do.

So to appease the government and the gun grabbers we could play that angle. "In order to make Canada safer it's imperative that you reclassify the AR15 as non-restricted".

 

[Leonidas]

Anyone is welcome to use my letter, you'll need to add images. The more people that write the better!

 

[Sluggo_m14]

Great letter!-Thank you
Should all AR owners copy this to their MP?

 

[tiriaq]

I would suggest that copied letters are less effective than individual ones.
A personal letter took time and effort to produce.
A rubber stamp letter doesn't mean much.

 

[courtsm3]

love the letter, awesome work.

i agree with the hunting use of a AR platform, but what about the argument of plinking/tacitcool use? for me personally, ex military, i believe that kind of shooting belongs on a proper range. i would love to see 30rd mags and possibly suppressors. certain AR's should be reclassified but as for C7's/C8's in a ( non hunting role ) should remain restricted. but the argument could be that even hunting rifles misused can hurt people like a tactical AR. for me personally, rapid target shooting etc etc, i feel more comfortable on a range with a range officer or friend. my personal opinion and at the same time, de-restricted AR would be pretty awesome. targeted hits and murders are not done by our law abiding firearms licence holders.

 

[DaveMachine]

That's exactly the same faulty logic our gun laws are written with. Full auto and mechanical differences aside, can you tell me how the C7 differs from any other .223 NR semi-auto? Care to define what constitutes an AR15 in a hunting or non-hunting role?