Hi everyone, So, finally fed up with the lack of answers on ANY forum pertaining to whether or not the 715t magazine is prohibited or not due to the (unwanted, IMO) introduction of the 715P into Canada. I wrote a letter to the RCMP Specialized Firearm Support Services for an answer.
This is the response....
Good morning,
RCMP - Specialized Firearm Support Services (RCMP-SFSS) is the legal classification policy centre. I am authorized to speak on the subject of firearm legal classification issues on behalf of SFSS Section and the Canadian Firearms Program (CFP).
Let me identify myself and my job function to you. My name is William Etter. I hold the job position title of Chief Firearms Technologist, in the Specialized Firearms Support Services which is the technical authority in the subject area of assigning the applicable legal class to all firearms, devices and prohibited ammunition.
Your correspondence and the questions you posed to the Firearms Program have been forwarded to me to me for a response.
The Specialized Firearms Support Services Section is a component of the Firearms Investigative and Enforcement Services Directorate, RCMP - Canadian Firearms Program.
QUESTION
I have a question concerning the status of the 25 round magazine which is currently being sold with the Mossberg 715T semi auto 22 lr. carbine.
Recently Mossberg has introduced into the U.S.A. (only) at this point a 715P semi auto 22 lr. pistol which apparently uses the same 25 round magazines as the 715T.
My question is, since the 715P has not been introduced into Canada at this point does that make the current 25 round magazine for the 715T carbine prohibited?
Without anyone having a definitive answer to date, I would just like some clarification on the matter if possible.
Thank you for your time,
ANSWER
The Mossberg 715T firearm model is manufactured in both rifle and handgun configurations. The magazine is interchangeable between the two configurations and is considered a dual purpose handgun / rifle magazine and the more restrictive handgun cartridge capacity limit applies.
Because handguns are limited to a ten shot magazine capacity in accordance with the CC PART III, S. 84, Regulations PART 4 Para 3. (1) (b) "The Former Cartridge Magazine Control Regulations", this limits the magazine capacity for the dual purpose rifle / handgun cartidge magazine to ten (10) shots, despite the firearm being designed to use rim-fire ammunition.
The firm Mossberg consulted with RCMP-SFSS in 2010 & 2012 and were advised that the importation of a "handgun" version of the 715T into North America would complicate their business model due to cartridge magazine issues under Canadian Law. They viewed this outcome as counter-productive and discontinued development (by CBC in Brazil) of the handgun (restricted version) completely. It was reported by Mosberg that no examples were brought to North America. (FRT # 131172)
The matter lay fallow until late 2013 when there was further discussion at the corporate Mossberg HQ level and a decision was made to re-instate the plan and continue to market and sell the CBC Manufactured, Brand name Mossberg, Model 715P (Pistol) firearm and the 715T firearm.
It should be noted that the Mossberg 715T is nothing but a "Dress-up" tactical kit surrounding a Mossberg 702 Plinkster, implicating the same 25 shot cartridge magazine sold for use with the 702 Plinkster series of firearms.
Mossberg Sales and Marketing Branch were advised of this problem and the Canadian cartridge magazine implications well before manufacture and distribution of the 715P firearm took place in 2013. A Mossberg Corporate decision was made to proceed with the sales and marketing in North America of this "Pistol" in 2013.
SPECIFIC QUESTION
My question is, since the 715P has not been introduced into Canada at this point does that make the current 25 round magazine for the 715T carbine prohibited?
ANSWER
Yes. The 25 shot cartridge magazine for the entire family of Mossberg Mossberg Model -715T, Mossberg 715P (restricted) Handgun and Model 702 Plinkster series of firearms, must be reduced to not more than 10 shots of the kind or type for which the cartridge magazine was designed.
Mossberg is fully aware of these facts and have a work around solution (which was revealed to me) consisting of replacing all 25 shot cartridge magazines in the hands of Canadian owners with a ten (10) shot magazine. I cannot speak for Mossberg; however, they are aware of the problem and have a contingency plan.
For further information from the appropriate authority on Mossberg’s “plan” to replace cartridge magazines, contact your Mossberg stocking dealer.
I hope this helps.
William Etter
William (Bill) Etter
Chief Firearms Technologist
Specialized Firearms Support Services
Firearms Investigative & Enforcement Services Directorate
RCMP - CFP
Specialized Policing Services
613-993-6684
This is the response....
Good morning,
RCMP - Specialized Firearm Support Services (RCMP-SFSS) is the legal classification policy centre. I am authorized to speak on the subject of firearm legal classification issues on behalf of SFSS Section and the Canadian Firearms Program (CFP).
Let me identify myself and my job function to you. My name is William Etter. I hold the job position title of Chief Firearms Technologist, in the Specialized Firearms Support Services which is the technical authority in the subject area of assigning the applicable legal class to all firearms, devices and prohibited ammunition.
Your correspondence and the questions you posed to the Firearms Program have been forwarded to me to me for a response.
The Specialized Firearms Support Services Section is a component of the Firearms Investigative and Enforcement Services Directorate, RCMP - Canadian Firearms Program.
QUESTION
I have a question concerning the status of the 25 round magazine which is currently being sold with the Mossberg 715T semi auto 22 lr. carbine.
Recently Mossberg has introduced into the U.S.A. (only) at this point a 715P semi auto 22 lr. pistol which apparently uses the same 25 round magazines as the 715T.
My question is, since the 715P has not been introduced into Canada at this point does that make the current 25 round magazine for the 715T carbine prohibited?
Without anyone having a definitive answer to date, I would just like some clarification on the matter if possible.
Thank you for your time,
ANSWER
The Mossberg 715T firearm model is manufactured in both rifle and handgun configurations. The magazine is interchangeable between the two configurations and is considered a dual purpose handgun / rifle magazine and the more restrictive handgun cartridge capacity limit applies.
Because handguns are limited to a ten shot magazine capacity in accordance with the CC PART III, S. 84, Regulations PART 4 Para 3. (1) (b) "The Former Cartridge Magazine Control Regulations", this limits the magazine capacity for the dual purpose rifle / handgun cartidge magazine to ten (10) shots, despite the firearm being designed to use rim-fire ammunition.
The firm Mossberg consulted with RCMP-SFSS in 2010 & 2012 and were advised that the importation of a "handgun" version of the 715T into North America would complicate their business model due to cartridge magazine issues under Canadian Law. They viewed this outcome as counter-productive and discontinued development (by CBC in Brazil) of the handgun (restricted version) completely. It was reported by Mosberg that no examples were brought to North America. (FRT # 131172)
The matter lay fallow until late 2013 when there was further discussion at the corporate Mossberg HQ level and a decision was made to re-instate the plan and continue to market and sell the CBC Manufactured, Brand name Mossberg, Model 715P (Pistol) firearm and the 715T firearm.
It should be noted that the Mossberg 715T is nothing but a "Dress-up" tactical kit surrounding a Mossberg 702 Plinkster, implicating the same 25 shot cartridge magazine sold for use with the 702 Plinkster series of firearms.
Mossberg Sales and Marketing Branch were advised of this problem and the Canadian cartridge magazine implications well before manufacture and distribution of the 715P firearm took place in 2013. A Mossberg Corporate decision was made to proceed with the sales and marketing in North America of this "Pistol" in 2013.
SPECIFIC QUESTION
My question is, since the 715P has not been introduced into Canada at this point does that make the current 25 round magazine for the 715T carbine prohibited?
ANSWER
Yes. The 25 shot cartridge magazine for the entire family of Mossberg Mossberg Model -715T, Mossberg 715P (restricted) Handgun and Model 702 Plinkster series of firearms, must be reduced to not more than 10 shots of the kind or type for which the cartridge magazine was designed.
Mossberg is fully aware of these facts and have a work around solution (which was revealed to me) consisting of replacing all 25 shot cartridge magazines in the hands of Canadian owners with a ten (10) shot magazine. I cannot speak for Mossberg; however, they are aware of the problem and have a contingency plan.
For further information from the appropriate authority on Mossberg’s “plan” to replace cartridge magazines, contact your Mossberg stocking dealer.
I hope this helps.
William Etter
William (Bill) Etter
Chief Firearms Technologist
Specialized Firearms Support Services
Firearms Investigative & Enforcement Services Directorate
RCMP - CFP
Specialized Policing Services
613-993-6684
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