Finally scoped my M14...Massive Dissappointment

factionrr said:
Just got home ten minutes ago from my first time shooting my m14 with a brand new CASM mount with a busnell elite 10x40. Took about the usual 5 shots to sight in(bore sighted first). Ran 100 rounds thru it with no substantial loss in accuracy. I'm going to take a wager it's your scope. Your tasco's cherry and probably its internals have been popped ;)
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My money is an out of spec sight pocket......
 
Dweano, if you'd like to go over the installation of the M14.ca CASM GEN II scope mount to make sure things are 100%, I am available 7 days a week.

Regarding the ARMS18 vs CASM comments: the ARMS18 is a good scope mount, but as any professional gunsmith knows, the ARM18 can have complicated, time-consuming and potentially costly installation issues.

The CASM series GEN II scope mount requires "0" gunsmithing, sets up quickly and can cost up to half that of an ARMS18. For example, in Canada, the CASM GEN II is priced approx. $70 lower after tax than an ARMS18. For former/current military and law enforcement, the CASM scope mount is approx. $110 lower than the ARMS18.

From one of the CASM GEN II's most recent reviews, the author writes:
"...the hits on target at that distance was consistent and multiple groups hovered at 1 MOA. The rifle was allowed to cool to test for cold bore repeatability of the mount and as the picture shows the mount is absolutely solid with no shift in POI with the cold bore shot. The rifle was also tested at 750 yards and rapid fire strings were done to check for wandering zero or POI stringing and none was present. Throughout the day groups were tested between the two distances and the results were absolutely consistent with 200 rounds of the same lot of ammo tested. Without a doubt, this is one of the most secure, reliable and consistentent non-permanent bolt on m14 scope mounts on the market today."
 
OP- I had the same problem with my scope. a 6-24X40mm Leapers. (again not a high end scope). I decided to leave my m14 as the battle rifle it was meant to be. i have a red dot with a 7x flip-to-side zoom behind it. the red dot was about 150$ and the zoom about 175$. both by sightmark. i feel it's a great set up. close to what i get to use at work. it lets me fill 3" dots at 300m.

good luck with your troubles.
 
About two years ago, I had an issue in mounting my scope. Cheap mount (NC Star). Anyways, before scope was even mounted I could clearly see that the mount was not centered on the bore, nor was it parallel to the bore...I used a long broom handle to confirm this.

Had to shim, just like the Sadlak mounts. Once mounted correctly, mine was a shooter. Heavy, but still a shooter.

I removed scope because I refuse to lug around a 12 lb rifle.
 
Great advice on this thread. The CASM i can assure you won't be the problem. The word tasco makes me cringe lol but if your on a budget I fully understand. Shims may be your solution here. Try asking someone you know to borrow there decent scope for a afternoon at the range maybe? Place it on and shoot at 25m ONLY. Then once that scope gives you a indication of what's going on, you can start troubleshooting the issues and striking off what is causing them. Just a idea. Hope it all works out for you OP!

:cheers:
 
Interesting that this should be at the top of the Battle Rifles section this evening. I just finished using a laser boresighter on a pair of scopes (Kahles 1.1-4X30 and Bushnell 3200 10X40) on a pair of M-14's, both scopes mounted with CASM mounts. I had no issues whatsoever - both mounts seemed nice and straight to me.

More to follow when I hit the range later this week, I guess.
 
The casm does fit in it's own niche, and for some shooters with certain load out requirements, it might be the perfect solution for that shooter. But for those guys with sight pocket deformaties, I'd recommend a different mount over altering the receiver to fit the casm.
 
Do not always blame the cheap scope. The shots were all to the right even when the adjustment was at its maximum. If it was the scope the shots will be all over the paper!!
Always bore sight the new scope and have an idea of its alignment with the barrel before heading to the range.
 
45ACPKING said:
This professional gunsmith, thinks that the above statement is completely erroneous.
Being the busiest M14 smith in Canada, hands down, I can tell you that in my years spent with chinese rifles and the arms 18 OR the more affordable steel promag copy(less that a casm), fitment issues were generally solved in steps that did Not require receiver or mount alterations.

Sell the product but don't blow smoke up peoples butts to do it ;)
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Agreed, well said.
 
Dweano said:
Yeah I know I am a newb to this. This is my first rifle and my first adventure into optics. First off I am using a cheap scope which I know...don't cheap out on optics but it is what I currently have. I hope to upgrade in the future.

The scope is a crappy one...Tasco I believe, it doesn't say on it and I can't remember the brand...it may even be a knockoff. The rings were included (I know...TWK) but honestly the scope seems not bad and solid.

The mount was installed using Loctite on all screws. Scope and ring screws were tight but not loctited

I have fired maybe 80 rounds through the gun since I got it. After about 20 I greased it up

I was resting on the bipod not leaning into it or against it



Yeah not the best I know. But I couldn't even adjust it left enough to get it on paper from 25 yards. The scope is pointing a different direction than the barrel.

I think I am going to try the dowel trick to see what things are lined up and what aren't.

As I said, I am new to rifles (well, centerfire...I have a 10/22 with a scope with I installed and sighted in the same way I was doing this) and I obviously need some help and probably knowledge :rolleyes:
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You need to adjust the back mount where the stripper clip guide used to be, it's too far to the left. Maybe you found it, havnt read the rest. But I had the same issue and that fixed it.
 
Dweano said:
Hey guys. I finally got my CASM scope mount from M14.ca. Followed the instructions to the Tee (even watched the video). Put on a scope. I was careful to try and torque things just right (on the mount I did it perfect, I turned the front vertical adjustment screw just under a quarter turn after it hit the reciever) and the scope and rings I did tight but nothing excessive.

Alright so at this point we have a scope on an M14 (which up until now shot a 4 inch group at 100 yards with irons...irons aren't my thing I guess haha)

I head out to the Range (aka...our field) go out to 100 yards, take a shot, nothing on the target.

Alright way too far out 25 yards...take a shot...nothing! My friend saw it hit to the right. So I adjusted it left left left. Nothing. More shots...nothing. Etc. I moved up to 10 yards! How can I mess this up. Take a shot. Eight inches to the right. So I turned the scope adjustment ALL THE WAY to the left. Literally no more adjustment available. Take a shot at ten yards and its still an inch to the right.

OK whatever, back to 25 yards. Take some shots. Kinda getting on the target. Still to the right very much.

Go back to 100 yards. No chance of hitting the targets...but I let my buddy take some shots just for fun. I think I may have converted him to a GunNut. So...one success of the day.

So anyways...we take the scope off (which looked like it was angled to the left)...and we put a breaker bar (it was all we had) and it was not straight...a bit off to the left.

Scope appears to be fine...even tho it is a cheap one. But that shouldn't be the problem because it was visible that the mount was pointed off parralel

Rings appear to be fine

CASM mount...I haven't checked yet. But I doubt it, it seems to be a high quality product

So what then? is my receiver messed up? I got it from CanAm a couple months ago

I'll try to take pics later
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BTW, I always start my zeroing at 25 yards, or less, for this very possible problem occuring. Best to waste one round and get it close to zero there, than spend 5 or 6 rounds trying to figure out where the bullets are hitting.

Then I move to 100 and rezero. If I want my zero to be at 300, then I will move back and rezero there (and note the clicks and drop from 100).
 
keng said:
Do not always blame the cheap scope. The shots were all to the right even when the adjustment was at its maximum. If it was the scope the shots will be all over the paper!!
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Maybe. If the positioning of the crosshairs is not in line with the axis of the tube, the POI could be way off - but not be moving around. Also, he can't tell if it's moving around since he can't get on paper.

Always bore sight the new scope and have an idea of its alignment with the barrel before heading to the range.
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Agreed. A laser boresighter will pay for itself in terms of ammo and cursing.
 
There can be some real subtle details to installing some of these scope mounts. Small details that make all the difference in the world. If I were you, I'd carefully go over the install instructions another time, repeat the procedure, paying attention to any part of the process that might be misaligning the mount.
 
I fought with the arms mount tbh, which is why I eventually sold it and am giving the casm a try.

I did not find anything about "fixing" the arms alignment issue until I had sold it.
Ie. new screw, removing washer, etc.
it frustrated me to no end, knowing everything was out of wack.

after all, many said you should spend a fair amount of money for a decent scope mount...

I am interested to see what the CASM can offer me.
 
45ACPKING said:
Being the busiest M14 smith in Canada, hands down, I can tell you that in my years spent with chinese rifles and the arms 18 OR the more affordable steel promag copy (less that a casm), fitment issues were generally solved in steps that did Not require receiver or mount alterations.
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This point is understood but not everyone with an M14 wants to go through the M14doctor fitment issue list with the ARMS18. The CASM scope mount is simpler to install and works equally well. There are over 700 customers that are using the CASM. Many more are using the ARMS18 and the "clones," however, I am winning a lot of those customers over that are just tired of the "issues" you speak of. I would also point out the list you made that Hungry stickied is something not everyone has access too, particularly in the USA. Great tips by the way...

Installing An ARMS18 Mount by M14Doctor

I find it odd that so many folks have issues getting ARMS 18 style mounts to align correctly.

Here's my tips:

* Get rid of the horse shoe washer on the inside of the retaining bolt. This lil bugger is what offsets the front of the mount... I ditch it every time.

* The rear screw that attaches to the stripper clip guide key. This has an adjustable pad that is key to alignment.

* Remove the screw and use a slot screw driver to adjust. First step is to back it out so it doesn't make contact upon "test fit" install. Same goes for the front pad.

**on my Promag version this rear adjustable pad was installed backwards from the package. The slotted face should face up, away from the receiver.

* Snug fit the side bolt and set a 3/4 or 1" dowel on the mount. Observe position.

* Then slowly bring rear pad to just touch the clip guide key.

* Install rear screw to just snug, then fully tighten side bolt

* Check alignment and level.

* These can now be adjusted by removing rear screw and lessening or increasing the tension of the rear pad. Reinstall screw and fully tighten.

* Finally adjust front pad until it just touches receiver.
 
If I have drilled and tapped out my receiver scope mounting hole to 1/4 inch, can I still install an ARMS18? Is the hole on the side of the mount big enough to accommodate a screw other than the one it comes with?

Does anyone here use an ARM18 in parallel with their iron sights? This is an absolute must for me. My current leapers aluminum mount is pretty awesome, but it doesn't seem to be as low as the ARMS18 and I lose a bit of iron sight picture and I also have to get scopes with more than 60MOA adjustment. By the time I get them on paper at 100 yards I have maybe 4-5 MOA play left in the scope :(
 
The Smith Enterprises mount I am using is called an M21. It allows the use of the iron sights. After you raise the rear sight past 200 yards though, the front sight becomes obscured and unusable. I'm using a scope with a ballistic reticle, so as long as I can zero it at 100 yards, I'm good to 500 yards, roughly.
 
Rocket Surgery said:
I also have to get scopes with more than 60MOA adjustment. By the time I get them on paper at 100 yards I have maybe 4-5 MOA play left in the scope :(
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The CASM GEN II scope mount has more than 30MOA rake built-in to the design. Adjustable during installation. I will have a new muzzle brake out this Summer with an adjustable front sight as well.
 
I looked at the CASM mount with the little peep hole in the back for irons, but doesn't this mount limit you to red dots and smallish scopes? What if I want to run some serious business up top like a super sniper elite 10x fixed or a 3-12 bushnell elite IR mildot

What's a 30moa rake? Is that like a tactical garden tool?
 
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