Finding a Colt's Dragoon

The Colt Dragoon has quite a heft to it and some used a saddle holster to carry it. The Colt 1860 Army is built on the lighter 1851 Navy frame making the 1860 Army quite bit lighter and by using the creeping loading arm it blends into the barrel assy resulting in a sleeker looking and easier handling handgun.

Here's a photo of my 1860 Army manufactured in early 1862 and issued to the Union Cavalry. It's the one on left.
 

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Rod said:
The Colt Dragoon has quite a heft to it and some used a saddle holster to carry it. The Colt 1860 Army is built on the lighter 1851 Navy frame making the 1860 Army quite bit lighter and by using the creeping loading arm it blends into the barrel assy resulting in a sleeker looking and easier handling handgun.

Here's a photo of my 1860 Army manufactured in early 1862 and issued to the Union Cavalry. It's the one on left.
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Nice. One of these days I’m going to have an original 1860. I have two replicas, 7 “and 5” barrels.
 
Even the 1860s the loading levers drops when you shoot them. Just because of that loading lever issue I would rather have a 1851.
The 51 I think has the better grip. It's same one used on 73SAA
Problem with all these including dragoon is they are shooting way high and left.
So if you spend big dollars on original. Especially a dragoon. Are you willing to modify it to hit POA?
A octagon barrel like on 51 I think would be easier to dovetail out by a DIY gun owner .
 
Valiant said:
Even the 1860s the loading levers drops when you shoot them. Just because of that loading lever issue I would rather have a 1851.
The 51 I think has the better grip. It's same one used on 73SAA
Problem with all these including dragoon is they are shooting way high and left.
So if you spend big dollars on original. Especially a dragoon. Are you willing to modify it to hit POA?
A octagon barrel like on 51 I think would be easier to dovetail out by a DIY gun owner .
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I’ve never known 1860 levers to drop, maybe in cheap replicas or severely beaten originals. Also these guns have survived and been utilized for over 150 years just fine without being modified, you don’t need to be hacking up history, just learn how to shoot them and enjoy them in the glorious original state you found them in.
 
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MosinMan13 said:
I’ve never known 1860 levers to drop, maybe in cheap replicas or severely beaten originals. Also these guns have survived and been utilized for over 150 years just fine without being modified, you don’t need to be hacking up history, just learn how to shoot them and enjoy them in the glorious original state you found them in.
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Shooting way high and to the left with loading levers dropping . Cap jamming reproductions very glorious.
I would love to see a video of anybody running a pair of original or spaghetti 1860s and doing something glorious.
 
Valiant said:
Shooting way high and to the left with loading levers dropping . Cap jamming reproductions very glorious.
I would love to see a video of anybody running a pair of original or spaghetti 1860s and doing something glorious.
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There’s tons of videos and threads of folks shooting commendably with 1860s, again seldom with loading lever failures. Even if it’s an easy enough fix. Keep in perspective you’re talking about relics that predate the titanic here.

I have a pickup truck on the farm, I also have a 100yr old carriage in the barn and a retired Clydesdale that on the off occasion takes a gander down the lane. I would never compare the alignment or performance of the cart and horse to my modern automobile, yet I can still appreciate the craftsmanship and performance of something built by hand with the technology available at the time.

My 1860, and the last two I’ve owned shot a little high and to the left, so I compensate a little low and to the right, I get lead on target, and I didn’t have to butcher a 162 year old civil war veteran or dishonour its name to do so. A bubba is a bubba, milsurp or antique alike.
 
MosinMan13 said:
There’s tons of videos and threads of folks shooting commendably with 1860s, again seldom with loading lever failures. Even if it’s an easy enough fix. Keep in perspective you’re talking about relics that predate the titanic here.

I have a pickup truck on the farm, I also have a 100yr old carriage in the barn and a retired Clydesdale that on the off occasion takes a gander down the lane. I would never compare the alignment or performance of the cart and horse to my modern automobile, yet I can still appreciate the craftsmanship and performance of something built by hand with the technology available at the time.

My 1860, and the last two I’ve owned shot a little high and to the left, so I compensate a little low and to the right, I get lead on target, and I didn’t have to butcher a 162 year old civil war veteran or dishonour its name to do so. A bubba is a bubba, milsurp or antique alike.
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The 1860s I see in competitions, well they just don't win.
Point of aim is important. Shooting gunfighter you will notice that the best tend to tip guns in a bit. Not gangster like dope dealers in a movie but in just a bit.
Everytime you make a run you have a new set of targets that you have to shoot in a different pattern or sequence. Remembering the sequence is hardest part. You can't be thinking about which gun shoots high and left and which way the other gun hits. Tilting or tipping the gun's in throws another part into remembering where they hit.
Shooting slow deliberately is different.
 
Valiant said:
The 1860s I see in competitions, well they just don't win.
Point of aim is important. Shooting gunfighter you will notice that the best tend to tip guns in a bit. Not gangster like dope dealers in a movie but in just a bit.
Everytime you make a run you have a new set of targets that you have to shoot in a different pattern or sequence. Remembering the sequence is hardest part. You can't be thinking about which gun shoots high and left and which way the other gun hits. Tilting or tipping the gun's in throws another part into remembering where they hit.
Shooting slow deliberately is different.
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Sorry but that’s absurd, plainly speaking. Nobody here was talking about competition shooting, and frankly if you’re using a set of 1860s for cowboy action you’re either doing it for the novelty (or leisure) or you just like making challenges for yourself. Thats seriously judging a fish by its ability to climb a tree though, the same way an AK is a bad choice for 3 gun, doesn’t make it a bad rifle. Fact is they pattern incredibly well for what they are, regardless of the POI, which only matters in your one specific scenario.

It still doesn’t give merit to the concocted idea that loading arms are dropping at some measurable rate of occurrence enough to warrant that fabricated notion. I just fail to see any evidence of it. It seems a whole lot more like you have a bias or opinion about the 1860 and have decided to project that onto the world.
 
The Walker Colt didn't have loading lever retention to hold it in place when fired. The tip of the loading lever was penciled down to a blunt point and would sometimes drop down on heavy loads after the revolver was worn a bit.

Colt solved this problem, with subsequent models, with a loading lever retention assy affixed under the front site that proved very successful and solved the problem. The end of the loading lever snaps into the bracket with a crisp action requiring the shooter to pull back on the release at the end of the loading lever to disengage. After 163 years the loading lever on my 1860 Army still holds tight and firm when snapped up in place. This locking assy needs very little maintenance just kept clean and lubricated.
 
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MosinMan13 said:
Sorry but that’s absurd, plainly speaking. Nobody here was talking about competition shooting, and frankly if you’re using a set of 1860s for cowboy action you’re either doing it for the novelty (or leisure) or you just like making challenges for yourself. Thats seriously judging a fish by its ability to climb a tree though, the same way an AK is a bad choice for 3 gun, doesn’t make it a bad rifle. Fact is they pattern incredibly well for what they are, regardless of the POI, which only matters in your one specific scenario.

It still doesn’t give merit to the concocted idea that loading arms are dropping at some measurable rate of occurrence enough to warrant that fabricated notion. I just fail to see any evidence of it. It seems a whole lot more like you have a bias or opinion about the 1860 and have decided to project that onto the world.
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You were saying about doing glorious things with 1860. I replied show me. Which you didn't do.
Percussion is used in cowboy action. Percussion guns shoot in their own category because they have no chance against 1873 colts.
The Original colts 1860s actually shoot and function better than spaghetti clones. Just because something is a 150 or so years doesn't mean it's no good anymore and with handgun ban the original guns are all we can buy right now. I shoot old iron all the time. If your gun won't run , don't blame it on its age. I only use my age as a excuse. Haha never the gun's age.
That loading latch and I know the fixes for it but with full charges don't be surprised if it still comes down occasionally. With dragoon I don't think any fixes will keep it in place except taping or tying it in place. And nothing new about 1860 loading lever. The rack and pinion system was used on root revolver.
Lots of guys shooting new model or 1858 Remingtons in cowboy action. They work . Well the originals work. Spaghetti 58s have lots of troubles. The real Remingtons work but you have to keep them clean.
My choice would be original 1851 colts all day long if I was using percussion.
 
Here is a video of I'm sure highly worked on spaghetti dragoons and 1860s .
He isn't shooting hot charges. But it does show that they can run.
Years ago and I mean 30 some years ago a friend of mine had uberti reproduction of a dragoon along with pietta and uberti 1860s. Out of the box these guns were junk. Cap sucking spitters that dropped their loading levers every shot.
 
Valiant said:
You were saying about doing glorious things with 1860. I replied show me. Which you didn't do.
Percussion is used in cowboy action. Percussion guns shoot in their own category because they have no chance against 1873 colts.
The Original colts 1860s actually shoot and function better than spaghetti clones. Just because something is a 150 or so years doesn't mean it's no good anymore and with handgun ban the original guns are all we can buy right now. I shoot old iron all the time. If your gun won't run , don't blame it on its age. I only use my age as a excuse. Haha never the gun's age.
That loading latch and I know the fixes for it but with full charges don't be surprised if it still comes down occasionally. With dragoon I don't think any fixes will keep it in place except taping or tying it in place. And nothing new about 1860 loading lever. The rack and pinion system was used on root revolver.
Lots of guys shooting new model or 1858 Remingtons in cowboy action. They work . Well the originals work. Spaghetti 58s have lots of troubles. The real Remingtons work but you have to keep them clean.
My choice would be original 1851 colts all day long if I was using percussion.
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Go look up the definition of Glory and Glorious, the 1860 earned its glory and still holds it from the rich history of military and civilian trials. If you need someone to find you a YouTube video to demonstrate that, you’re being willfully blind, I can recommend a half dozen books at least to catch you up on it.

So recap in summation;

- The 1860 army is not an inherently poor design as you’ve implied.

- There isn’t any more of a loading lever drop issue than any other models (you both implied and admitted)

- All makes and models of cap guns are subject to build quality, wear and maintenance as you’ve admitted.

- More modern designs like the 1873 are an unfair advantage and thus an unfair comparison (even though the video you used as an example was an 1873)

- You’d prefer a nearly identical gun to the 1860, one that even has the same lever catch and an inferior lever system.

Good chat.
 
MosinMan13 said:
Go look up the definition of Glory and Glorious, the 1860 earned its glory and still holds it from the rich history of military and civilian trials. If you need someone to find you a YouTube video to demonstrate that, you’re being willfully blind, I can recommend a half dozen books at least to catch you up on it.

So recap in summation;

- The 1860 army is not an inherently poor design as you’ve implied.

- There isn’t any more of a loading lever drop issue than any other models (you both implied and admitted)

- All makes and models of cap guns are subject to build quality, wear and maintenance as you’ve admitted.

- More modern designs like the 1873 are an unfair advantage and thus an unfair comparison (even though the video you used as an example was an 1873)

- You’d prefer a nearly identical gun to the 1860, one that even has the same lever catch and an inferior lever system.

Good chat.
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You know a 1860 is same gun as 1851 except opened up for larger 44 cylinder because army wanted a larger caliber.
Army figured it would be good idea if grip was bigger to be able to use up the armies surplus horse pistol shoulder stocks. This why they put the bigger dragoon style grip on it.
The 51 has the better 1873 grip and 36 cal has less recoil so don't have the loading lever drop.
I didn’t change my stance or admit anything. The spaghetti guns I shot quite a bit 35 years ago where junk but yes there are a lot of fixes for them that can be done.
That guy with dragoon in that video I posted was shooting light loads .watch last of muzzle jump. And I bet he filed and fitted the latch on his gun. I bet the whole gun had a lot of work done to it.
Again nothing wrong that. But as far as legendary goes Canada sent soldiers to war with inaccurate Lee Enfields. Are as issued to troops with ball ammo, inaccurate, rotten triggered Lee Enfields legendary?
 
Valiant said:
You know a 1860 is same gun as 1851 except opened up for larger 44 cylinder because army wanted a larger caliber.
Army figured it would be good idea if grip was bigger to be able to use up the armies surplus horse pistol shoulder stocks. This why they put the bigger dragoon style grip on it.
The 51 has the better 1873 grip and 36 cal has less recoil so don't have the loading lever drop.
I didn’t change my stance or admit anything. The spaghetti guns I shot quite a bit 35 years ago where junk but yes there are a lot of fixes for them that can be done.
That guy with dragoon in that video I posted was shooting light loads .watch last of muzzle jump. And I bet he filed and fitted the latch on his gun. I bet the whole gun had a lot of work done to it.
Again nothing wrong that. But as far as legendary goes Canada sent soldiers to war with inaccurate Lee Enfields. Are as issued to troops with ball ammo, inaccurate, rotten triggered Lee Enfields legendary?
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Legendary is a different word than Glorious, and yes the Lee Enfields were an improvement from their predecessor at the time. That’s pretty unanimous.

Thanks for the lesson, would you like to see my library?

Your admission was made inadvertently through your contradictions.
 
MosinMan13 said:
Legendary is a different word than Glorious, and yes the Lee Enfields were an improvement from their predecessor at the time. That’s pretty unanimous.

Thanks for the lesson, would you like to see my library?

Your admission was made inadvertently through your contradictions.
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Just because you own a ford doesn't mean your model of Ford was best truck.
What contradictions have I made?
Maybe read less and shoot more.

About cap sucking. I know it's about sharp edges, safety notch in hammer, mainspring tension, cone design.
But 35 years ago when we were shooting that dragoon and those 1860s. The more black powder under the cap. The more likely it seemed to get a cap jam and more often the loading lever came down under recoil. That's one of the reasons why I would go with a 51 navy if I was to get back into it.
 
Valiant said:
Just because you own a ford doesn't mean your model of Ford was best truck.
What contradictions have I made?
Maybe read less and shoot more.

About cap sucking. I know it's about sharp edges, safety notch in hammer, mainspring tension, cone design.
But 35 years ago when we were shooting that dragoon and those 1860s. The more black powder under the cap. The more likely it seemed to get a cap jam and more often the loading lever came down under recoil. That's one of the reasons why I would go with a 51 navy if I was to get back into it.
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No but my Ford is an improvement on the predecessor, which isn’t always but often is the case, which is applicable here.

Regardless we could bicker until the cows come home but we should probably just agree to disagree. The OP asked for advice on sourcing an original Dragoon because modern replicas weren’t an option at the moment, so talk of modern reproductions is in itself pointless. The OP also stated the reasons for wanting said model as in popular media, which I also interpreted a hint of liking the size and power of the Dragoon. The OP also indicated they aren’t new to cap guns so not to suggest a general inquiry to what’s-what.

The OP did not ask for help picking modern replicas that are best suited for action shooting matches, he did not ask which models are best suited to be modified, and did not ask about the ergonomics about navy spec guns.

You chose to come in and start slinging conjecture about the 1860 (which was only mentioned as a possible substitute to get by until better days) and how awful it and the dragoon are under a condition never inquired by the thread in hand.

I shoot plenty, as per my mention of not understanding any of your accused malfunctions. I get about a cap jam every odd dozen shots if I’m sloppy, my lever never drops and never has.
 
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