Finding Cerrosafe? Kasenit? Lower Mainland?

[H Wally]

Anyone know where to find Cerrosafe and Kasenit locally in Vancouver or the lower mainland? If that's not possible, where would you recommend online?


As far as kasenit goes, it's also a food additive, so could be found that way, just not sure if someone's already found it.

 

[Lodi]

Cerrosafe and Kasenit are both brand names. Check your tool or industrial supply companies.

Instead of Cerrosafe - search for "Fixturing Alloy".

Instead of Kasenit - search for "Surface Hardening Compound".

 

[gunlaker]

I bought an ingot of Cerrosafe from Buffalo Arms.

Chris.

 

[CanAm]

cerrosafe from canada metal on annacis island (if they have run a batch for stock)

I think kasenite has been discontinued, but try KBC Tools

 

[mooncoon]

I had to buy my Kasenite from Track of the Wolf. Fairly expensive but it lasts a long time. I would suggest buying 1 lb tin because the shipping is the same as for a smaller amount. Modern Kasenite appears to be a bit different from what was sold 25 years ago. The colour is a bit different and most importantly the older type melted into a black bubbling mixture fairly quickly. The new version seems to retain a sort of crust on top with melted portion beneath. I also have some off white granular material labeled "hardening powder" or something similar. I am a bit leary of using it because I am suspicious that it may be a cyanide compound

cheers mooncoon

 

[H Wally]

Cerrosafe and Kasenit are both brand names. Check your tool or industrial supply companies.

Instead of Cerrosafe - search for "Fixturing Alloy".

Instead of Kasenit - search for "Surface Hardening Compound".

That's exactly what I was curious about! Much appreciated, that'll make life far simpler when looking for it.

I bought an ingot of Cerrosafe from Buffalo Arms.

Chris.

Excellent - if I can't find it locally I'll keep it in mind.

cerrosafe from canada metal on annacis island (if they have run a batch for stock)

I think kasenite has been discontinued, but try KBC Tools

Thanks! It shouldn't be too hard to stop by if they've got any.

I had to buy my Kasenite from Track of the Wolf. Fairly expensive but it lasts a long time. I would suggest buying 1 lb tin because the shipping is the same as for a smaller amount. Modern Kasenite appears to be a bit different from what was sold 25 years ago. The colour is a bit different and most importantly the older type melted into a black bubbling mixture fairly quickly. The new version seems to retain a sort of crust on top with melted portion beneath. I also have some off white granular material labeled "hardening powder" or something similar. I am a bit leary of using it because I am suspicious that it may be a cyanide compound

cheers mooncoon

Thanks - good to know about the possible dangers of the hardening powder. Do you have a preference for the old or newer version? Any difference in how it behaves once cast into the chamber? (hardness, accuracy in casting etc?)

 

[Lodi]

Thanks - good to know about the possible dangers of the hardening powder. Do you have a preference for the old or newer version? Any difference in how it behaves once cast into the chamber? (hardness, accuracy in casting etc?)

You're backwards. The Cerrosafe is for chambers, not the Kasenit. (Yeah, I know you knew that. )

 

[CanAm]

BTW sulphur works nearly as well for chamber casting and is stored in piles in North Van.

 

[trevj]

Yer gonna want to do a little reading about fixturing alloys, vs. Cerrosafe.

If you get the wrong mixture, you end up with a PITA time getting the stuff out from where you poured it.

Uh....Firsthand experience talking here.

The differences between the various low melting temperature alloys are not huge, but they make ALL the difference. The cerrosafe formulation allows for the alloy to shrink a wee bit after cooling, then expand at a set rate over some time afterwards. Fixturing alloys mostly expand on cooling, to lock the parts down tight.

It's a Pain In The Arse to have to strip down the gun to be able to fit it into a pot of boiling water...

Here. As good a reference as any.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood's_metal

Cheers
Trev

 

[TedB]

Here. As good a reference as any.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood's_metal

Now that was an interesting read.

 

[H Wally]

You're backwards. The Cerrosafe is for chambers, not the Kasenit. (Yeah, I know you knew that. )

Haha - I misread that actually - I read it as a powder of some kind that would be added to alter the alloy of the cerrosafe to make it harder... possibly less prone to warping if difficult to remove etc.

BTW sulphur works nearly as well for chamber casting and is stored in piles in North Van.

Hmm - everything I had read about sulphur casting made me think that it wasn't super useful for chamber casting. Pretty brittle, stinks when heating etc.

Yer gonna want to do a little reading about fixturing alloys, vs. Cerrosafe.

If you get the wrong mixture, you end up with a PITA time getting the stuff out from where you poured it.

Uh....Firsthand experience talking here.

The differences between the various low melting temperature alloys are not huge, but they make ALL the difference. The cerrosafe formulation allows for the alloy to shrink a wee bit after cooling, then expand at a set rate over some time afterwards. Fixturing alloys mostly expand on cooling, to lock the parts down tight.

It's a Pain In The Arse to have to strip down the gun to be able to fit it into a pot of boiling water...

Here. As good a reference as any.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood's_metal

Cheers
Trev

Much obliged on this note. Hadn't thought of that. I'll check the wiki page as well.

 

[CanAm]

Sulphur is how they used to do it and works fine. In my experience all the running around/gas money to find just the right thing is a waste of time when the old standby is common.

 

[Lodi]

I've used sulfur many times for chamber casts. The process is the same as Cerrosafe.

With sulfur, don't get it too hot or it will catch fire, then the stink starts. If it starts turning brown and getting browner, then it is getting too hot. Have the opportunity to step outside in case a fire does start. A standard propane torch works well.

I do prefer Cerrosafe. I find that it is easier to remove from those nooks and crannies than sulfur.

 

[wheaty]

Try Woods metal...You can get it at a dental supply house such as Ash Temple or DENTCO

 

[H Wally]

Try Woods metal...You can get it at a dental supply house such as Ash Temple or DENTCO

And wood's won't bind in the chamber? I see that it has similar composition to cerrosafe, but don't know how exactly it's intended to be used by dentists, so not sure how it's likely to behave.

 

[mooncoon]

I use cerrosafe now because I have it but before that I used to use parafin wax. I would plug the bore with a wad of paper towel or cleaning patch and hang a piece of string in the chamber. Pour the melted wax in and let cool. The reason for the string was that if the wax broke while removing it, the pieces stayed together. The dimension seemed to come out pretty close to chamber dimension and usually told me what I wanted to know. Usually I was looked to find the cartridge that the gun was chambered for. Wax does have the advantage that if the chamber is pitted and a bit rough (think antiques) it comes out a lot easier than Cerrosafe.
I am told that Cerrosafe was developed for the aircraft industry; claim was it was poured into thin metal hydraulic lines and allowed them to be bent without crushing. It was then melted out of the line according to the claim

cheers mooncoon

 

[trevj]

I use cerrosafe now because I have it but before that I used to use parafin wax. I would plug the bore with a wad of paper towel or cleaning patch and hang a piece of string in the chamber. Pour the melted wax in and let cool. The reason for the string was that if the wax broke while removing it, the pieces stayed together. The dimension seemed to come out pretty close to chamber dimension and usually told me what I wanted to know. Usually I was looked to find the cartridge that the gun was chambered for. Wax does have the advantage that if the chamber is pitted and a bit rough (think antiques) it comes out a lot easier than Cerrosafe.
I am told that Cerrosafe was developed for the aircraft industry; claim was it was poured into thin metal hydraulic lines and allowed them to be bent without crushing. It was then melted out of the line according to the claim

cheers mooncoon

There is a "Cerro" alloy specific to the task, called Cerro-Bend. It expands once it is in the line, and grips the sides tightly.

If you dig around online you can find the specific ratios of all the "Cerro" alloys, their melt temperatures, and their suggested uses.

Cerro-Safe is poor for hydraulic tubes, as it shrinks a bit and slides. This can sometimes allow ripples to form inside the radii of the bends. Since a typical tolerance on an aircraft line is on the order of no more than 5% out of round, going around the bend...it pays to have the right tools in hand. Cerro-Bend expands very slightly, and grips really well!

Devil's in the details. The correct material will make the job easy.

Cheers
Trev

 

[Anvil]

I had to buy my Kasenite from Track of the Wolf. Fairly expensive but it lasts a long time. I would suggest buying 1 lb tin because the shipping is the same as for a smaller amount. Modern Kasenite appears to be a bit different from what was sold 25 years ago. The colour is a bit different and most importantly the older type melted into a black bubbling mixture fairly quickly. The new version seems to retain a sort of crust on top with melted portion beneath. I also have some off white granular material labeled "hardening powder" or something similar. I am a bit leary of using it because I am suspicious that it may be a cyanide compound

cheers mooncoon

Kasenit is sodium ferrocyanide or potassium ferrocyandie. Both are listed on the MSDS and somewhat confusingly, used interchangably. Either will work. Both produced small amount of hydrogen cyanide gas when used so good ventilation is required. It will also decompose into hydgrogen cyanide if mixed with acid so don't do that.