finding hot loads

bruno

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Location
selkirk
what is the first sign a load is getting too hot? I don't have access to a chrono yet, so that is not an option.these are the ones i know, but in what order do they appear, and can you add some? thanks

- bolt difficult to open
- primers dents flattening
- erratic shots
- over-expansion of fired cases


ps i plan on getting a chrony in the future,so you can add those tips as well, thanks
 
We all like bigger and better , but accuracy and bullet performance are usually not at the maximum end of the load data. Work up to the most accurate load and then stop. If you have made it to the maximum end of the load data and you still don't have accuracy maybe there is a need of improving the bedding or something else in your rifle..
 
It depends on your particular rifle and brass.
In general primers can only tell you the relative pressure, and only when using the same lot of primers. E.G. Load 'A' is hotter then load 'B' but only if both were loaded with primers from lot# HK48G43L

Brass expansion and extrusion are the most accurate means; but only insofar as the brass you are using is identical hardness and alloy.
 
Buy a strain gauge and know for sure. Even if you have a chronograph, you can only estimate how "hot" a load is, which is sketchy when working with undocumented powders/primer combos, etc... A strain gauge and meter will tell you exactly what the pressure of your load is.

Oehler makes an integrated ballistics lab that measures pressure and velocity, as well as other factors. If you are serious about ballistics, that is the tool for you, and it only costs about as much as an AR-15.
 
All of the signs you mention are just that signs. Depending on your rifle, some or all ( or none) may show up. Generally, if your bolt starts getting stiff your way over the limit for your rifle, whatever your manuel says. Flattened primerw depend on what primer your using, you'll flatten out a soft one before a mag rifle primer. Buy a chrono, their cheap, and if your going faster than your manuel says, your pressure is higher. (pressure=velocity, there is no secret recipe).

my .02$
 
"Hot loading" can be dangerous. Just when you think you have it figured, something will bite ya in the a$$. A load that worked great last winter will be far too hot come the warm weather. The new bullet that looked the same will be slightly tighter/longer ,etc.

What I'm getting at is pushing the limits can be fun, but you never know when the limits will change. A buffer zone is a good idea and usually you will find your accurate loads will be in that zone also.
 
reason i'm asking is that im new to reloading, and while following the manuals I wanted to know when my gun was closing in on it's max safe pressure.
 
bruno said:
reason i'm asking is that im new to reloading, and while following the manuals I wanted to know when my gun was closing in on it's max safe pressure.


NP, thats a prudent and smart thing to do. Your manuels are your new bible, don't work outside of what they suggest!
 
bruno said:
reason i'm asking is that im new to reloading, and while following the manuals I wanted to know when my gun was closing in on it's max safe pressure.

If you are new to reloading then maybe wait a bit and gain a bit of experience before pushing the envelope. The manuals are a guide and although most max loads listed are usually safe in most guns using the exact components listed, not always. :D Wait until you get a chrono before you get really carried away experimenting. It will help with simple things such as lot variations in powder for example.

Always have as many tools and equiment at your disposal as you can. A chrono offers a lot of information at a relatively inexpensive cost.
 
The best indication is primer pockets loosening after a few loadings.If you find that there is noticeably less resistance to seating the primers within five loadings of a case,the chamber pressure is above normal.
 
When there's a gawd-awful BOOM, and bits of your stock start raining down around, and there's a big hole where the top of your chamber used to be,..... your loads too hot!:runaway:
 
A good quality dial caliper, that measures in 10,000" can help you find indications of over pressure, by measuring the case expansion. A chrono is not the be all, end all. In some guns you may reach a point where even hotter loads may not get noticibly higher fps. You can limit out, and still have dangerous pressures.

Published load data, is usually pretty reliable, and often these max loads listed, are still under what "some" guns are capable of. As was mentioned look for good accuracy with a load. Speed isn't everything.:)
 
thanks for the info. i have a mike that measures0.0001", but exactly how much is allowed?? do I measure the difference between an unfired case and a fired one, or between one that has been fired with a light load?
 
bruno said:
thanks for the info. i have a mike that measures0.0001", but exactly how much is allowed?? do I measure the difference between an unfired case and a fired one, or between one that has been fired with a light load?

Your mike is fine, they don't make verniers that measure ten-thous', measure at the case head, just after the rim. As to what allowed, try measuring a new unfired factory case, then fire it and measure again. If you start exceeding that number by much, your getting warmer.....
 
In order to use a micrometer to establish your pressure limits you have to establish a baseline for measuring.
Get a box of factory loads, fire each and measure the case expansion about .20 inches from the end of the case. Record these and do an aveage.
Measure each twice, the second time at 90 degrees.
It is important that the brass you are doing this with is of the same brand and lot number as you are reloading. You can not use these measurements for other lots of brass or other brands.
You can then use these cases to develop a load increasing the powder charge by small increments. When the case head expansion exceeds the baseline you have established with the factory loads, you are very likey exceeding pressure limits for the brass and the gun. Back off your load.

Rather than do this I use a Chrony and start with a minimum load. I work up in .3 grain increments loading five cartridges with each load and putting each load in a zip lock bag with the date, bullet, powder weight and sequence number. I then start firing five shot groups over the chrony. I will use banquet paper rolled across the target board with 1" pasters for shooting groups. I will sometimes prepare this paper at home and number the target patches according to the number on the ziplock bag. This gives me a record of group size. Sometimes the most accurate load is a few grains of powder under maximum.
And I never exceed the max velocity suggested by the loading manual, even if I reach max velocity at a few grains less than they have. The consistancy of compents like primers and powder changes. Much of the data was developed in the 1950s, 60's and 70's. At max loads a diferent lot of primers or powder can make a five percent or more change in pressures.
When you are using max loadsand start with a new lot of powder, or primers it is best to back off five percent and check velcities with a chronograph. Also check group size.

I avoid max loads if I can for a number of reasons, throat erosion, noise, recoil, shortened brass life, not to mention they are not fun to shoot.

In a hunting load and in target shooting bullet placement is far more important than squeezing the last bit of velocity out of a bullet.
 
I never exceed the max velocity suggested by the loading manual, even if I reach max velocity at a few grains less than they have.

The problem with that approach is that looking at several manuals,the maximum velocities vary significantly even with the same barrel length and identical components.As such how do you decide which manual to use as a velocity reference?Then ask yourself why the velocities vary from manual to manual even with the same barrel lengths and identical components.Obviously each gun is an individual and velocity is not a precise means of estimating pressure.
 
pressure signs

allthe signs you have mentioned are right .another way is to measure the case at the web then compare it to a factury case, if it is greater chances are pressures are starting to rise. also if the primer pockets start to get lose , you're geting to high pressure.:runaway:
 
An important point is to NOT assume that the maximum load listed will necessarily be safe to use in your rifle. Always start with a few rounds loaded at the lower end of the range given, just as a reality check for that component combo in your rifle. If the low end loads don't do anything too weird, start incrementing upward.(STOP when you see signs of high pressure or you reach the maximum listed load, whichever happens FIRST).

Stay inside the lines; loads BELOW the minimum reccommended can sometimes cause weird stuff to happen.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom