Fine tuning your handloads

StiffDrink

StiffDrink

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Hey guys

I will be quick with this one

I am making some great 30-06 loads for my remington 783 using specs from the hornady manual.

Where do i start with the tinkering to make it more accurate. (Btw already sub MOA using 178 gr A-Max and imr 4064)

I can play with powders, loads, seating depths, case OAL, primers...am i missing anything? If I am tell me.


so which do I play with first? And second, and third?

Background info, ive been handloading for a year, but I just use spec seating depths and loads from the hornady manual.

Thanks
 
You can experiment with all variables but only do so one at a time. I would start with playing with powder charge once you settle on one then start playing with seating depth. If you haven't already done so I would suggest investing in a headspace gauge and a tool to measure cartridge OAL from base to ogive these will help you properly set up your full length die for minimum shoulder bump and your seating die for proper depth. There are many on this forum much more knowledgeable than I hope this gets you started in the right direction.
 
1) powder charge
2) COL
3) different bullet weight.
4) different manufacturer of bullet

* I have tried a certain bullet in one of my rifles that I could not get to group worth a damn. in .270WSM I was trying 140gr BTHP. 130's, then 150's worked great, but the bullet between wouldn't work. I then chose a different bullet manufacturer. I have stuck with a different bullet manufacturer than my original plans, and I am very happy.
 
I always make sure the barrel is very clean (no copper) before each session. If you go by the philosophy that you don't need to clean, you can see groups starting to open up and you don't know if it's the barrel finally getting too dirty or the change in powder charges you are working with.
 
I find the powder and charge first, with a single COL and a single Bullet, then I use that load recipe with different bullets and then I adjust the COL to tweak the accuracy. Sometimes COL has to be adjusted during bullet testing due to bullet design, particularly with flat meplat designs as seen in .45/70, .30/30, .44, .38/55 etc... finally I try a couple different primers..... this process is all done with sorted brass of a single brand (and prepped identically). Keep the three T's in mind... tinker, test, trust...
 
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Some good info here, I would recommend running a ladder test with different bullet weights and designs. For precision loads i would stick with all the same brand of brass and primers keeping it consistent. It sounds like the A-max is working well for you. Take a good look at the 190-210 grain stuff out there too. There's a bunch of videos on YouTube explaining how you can run them. I shoot two different rifles that i make precision loads for. In one i am restricted to Mag Length, and the other gives me plenty of room to run VLDs up into the lands if i so desire. But i can make both rifles shoot 1/2 -3/4 MOA on good days. My "mocked-up" ladder test seems to have worked for me, i load from min to slightly over max charge in small intervals and shoot through a chronograph at a target. Record all data and mark the impacts of each round looking for clusters on target and small jumps in velocity as powder charge changes also giving the barrel a chance to cool between strings. People recommend all kinds of different distances but 150m has worked well for me, beyond that I'm worried about the wind influencing my results. Then work from there with seating depth. I learned the hard way that its "best" to run this during warmer temps, as in the winter my loads that were slightly under any pressure signs were now running too hot. Even with the temp insensitive powders. You can get into tuning your ammunition as much or as little as you require, (neck turning, run-out gauges, brass weight sorting, annealing etc) it depends on how much of your time is worth shrinking group size. Hornady makes a few gauges that attach to your calipers that measure head space, and cartridge length to the ogive of the bullet. These i think ran about $30 each and have been very helpful to my reloading. You can bump size your brass, giving you longer brass life, and apparently accuracy and measuring to the ogive of the bullet will be much more consistent than the to the tip. . My 308 shot well with 178 A-max's, as well, that my current load. I tried 168s in SMK, A-max, Berger Hybrids, Ballistic Tips and couldn't get the results i was looking for. The 178's grouped better than the others without putting near as much effort into the load development. I am by no means an expert reloader but i have fun tweaking and learning about this stuff, that's what has worked for me, hope it helps
 
What are you planning on using it for? Kind of surprised you're getting sub MOA with a hunting rifle, but maybe Remington is getting something right, again.
However, if you haven't adjusted the trigger(and don't if you're going to hunt. 3.5 is light enough for hunting. No hunting with an A-Max if that's part of your plan. A 175 grain hunting bullet will do though.), that will be a start. Then look at the OAL to give you whatever distance from the lands your rifle prefers. And it is the rifle's preference. There's no formula or set distance. Strictly trial and error.
Running a ladder test tells you nothing about accuracy. A ladder test only tells you where a particular shot ends up in relation to other shots.
 
If you visit my website and look in the tech section, I have several articles to help with load tuning.

Enjoy and good luck.

Just remember, that factory barrel will only shoot so well. If you can get consistent 3 rds approaching 2/3 to 1/2 min, you are doing fantastic.

Jerry
 
X2, totally agree. Find your total length with any bullet and then back it off the lands anywhere from .015 to .020. Then the powder and everything comes into play, as in most firearms your OAL will be greater than the book spec, so one bonus will be reduced pressure in the case.

silverfoxdj said:
Great question, I'd vote for seating depth ..can't wait for others opinions on this one
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sunray said:
What are you planning on using it for? Kind of surprised you're getting sub MOA with a hunting rifle, but maybe Remington is getting something right, again.
However, if you haven't adjusted the trigger(and don't if you're going to hunt. 3.5 is light enough for hunting. No hunting with an A-Max if that's part of your plan. A 175 grain hunting bullet will do though.), that will be a start. Then look at the OAL to give you whatever distance from the lands your rifle prefers. And it is the rifle's preference. There's no formula or set distance. Strictly trial and error.
Running a ladder test tells you nothing about accuracy. A ladder test only tells you where a particular shot ends up in relation to other shots.
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It is my hunting rifle, why do you say no hunting with the A max
 
I see now on the hornady website they dont suggest them for hunting..shame, the results are awesome. Anyway, to Sunray, it is my hunting rifle, but its also seconding as my precision gun with my results.
 
To those interested, im using federal brass, with cci 200 primers, cases at 2.490, overall length 3.240, with the 178 A max infront of 47 grs of imr 4064.
 
i used to start by finding powder charge and then play with OAL.
but for the last few load i started by finding the OAL first and then the powder charge.
i found accurate load faster that way.
 
stubblejumper said:
I start with finding a powder bullet combination, then I fine tune the seating depth.
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Me too.

I start with a big jump. Say 30 thou.

The Amax bullet usually mushrooms in ballistic gelatin. I have the Hornady test data. It was not designed as a hunting bullet, but it seems to perform ok. The Sierra Matchkings do not perform as well as hunting bullets.
 
I have watched a few clips on youtube of A-max bullets taking down smaller sized game, like deer and goats and seems to be an effective bullet at extended ranges. I wouldn't try to poke one through the shoulder of a moose at 50 yards, but it seems to expand rapidly like the berger bullets at extended ranges(lower velocities) where the bonded hunting bullets don't give quite enough expansion. I do think the ladder test helps with accuracy, it helps with slight variances in powder charge. For example if you find a nice cluster between 45.5 and 46.5 grains then the best solution would be to pick a charge weight right in the middle. That way when your loading your cases it's much more forgiving. I have seen impact shifts as much as 2" as you start to approach signs of max pressure. If i just loaded up all my ammo at a step below max pressure and ended up +/-0.2 grains on a particular round my impact would have changed. Hope this helps

Some Horizontal spread due to light winds. Note placement of shots 13 and 14(highest two). These were not pulled i have seen this before. Shots fired prone from a bipod/rear bag the same as I would if hunting.
photo.jpg



3 shot cluster. 0.868" at 150M just over 0.5MOA best to date with this load was approx 2" at 600 yards(was on steel and didn't have calipers)
photo2.jpg



photo3.jpg

Pressure signs at Shot #14 78 grains.


To anyone interested this was ran for 210 Grain Berger VLD out of 300 win mag 26" Sendero at 3.573" COAL. This is a 0.015 jump. Started at this COAL due to what i researched online then worked with the charge weight. I have taken moose out to 765yards with this recipe.
 
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I'd start with the seating depth first. The powder/bullet combo you have seems pretty good. Go with .02 increments closer and further away from the lands until you find perhaps a better sweet spot. Just keep max mag box length in mind. It's possible to have a great performing COAL that won't fit in the mag well! I've had that happen.
 
No expert here, but once I found a powder that my gun liked, it hated 4831, but liked RL22, I did a ladder test to narrow down a node, then adjusting seating depth made a huge difference for me. ( from oh crap to oh snap!! )
 
Powder / bullet. Then length. I obtain length to mark bullet against lands. Then check if that round will feed reliably from mag well. Shorten as needed until it does. I now load shorter by .005" increments back to published length. Shoot 'til I find a node. Play with that node by .002". Shoot that set. Pick the best and go with it. This takes time and effort.
Only part that sucks is that I have 3 rifles I have not had time to play with this past year.
 
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