Finnish M39 Ammo
- Thread starter EHG
- Start date
Most would say a 168 gr .308 bullet behind your choice of a decent powder like H4895 or Varget but if it were my M39, I'd slug the bore to verify what the barrel actually is. Then even if it was .308 I'd still shoot some milsurp ammo through it.
M27 nominal bore diameter should be .3095"
Pretty sure the D166 is 200gr.
Years ago when I went through the "M39" craze (back when prices were sane btw- this latest round of prices is ridiculous- enjoy) I found that the 39 is not picky. An important thing is to use .310/.311 diameter projectiles, otherwise with .308 projectiles you will wear your bore into a sewer pipe in short order due to plasma (hot gas) blow-by. The Finns figured that out back in the 1930's.
The nice thing about the 39 is that it was produced when raw materials were at a critically low level, and hence the bore was sized to accept battlefield captured Russian ammunition. It handles all surplus with ease and accuracy. If you don't have proper .310 projectiles, just shoot surplus and clean with bore with hot water (only water dissolves salts- ammonia solutions are thought to clean, but it's not the ammonia that does the cleaning, it's the water that is the other half of the solution that best dissolves the salts) at the end of the day, follow with oil or kroil and you're good to go. Don't over think it too much. The Finns didn't.
I found Czech silvertip to be very accurate, as well as MFS surplus in both 185 and 203 grains. 203 was actually more accurate than 185 on the average. Nothing beat 7N1 though- that stuff was wild in the couple of 39's I put it through.
In reloads, I used 174 0.311 SMKs over ~41 gr of IMR4064 or 4895. Varget also works well. This load will not be the limiting factor in accuracy. Velocity will be around 2200 fps and will be correct to 'historical' specifications- so your sight ladder will be correct.
Last tip: for the money that these things are going for right now, go buy a Tikka, any Tikka (or Sako), and enjoy having a rifle that is the pinnacle of 90 years of Mosin-based engineering beginning with the M27 series, some of which were rebuilt at a small machine shop in Tikkakoski, Finland. If you're an exceptionally astute collector, you may find a matching sewing machine to compliment your rifle. When the craze finally subsides, you'll be able to find or import examples for much more reasonable rates. This current round is fair market for fools.
The nice thing about the 39 is that it was produced when raw materials were at a critically low level, and hence the bore was sized to accept battlefield captured Russian ammunition. It handles all surplus with ease and accuracy. If you don't have proper .310 projectiles, just shoot surplus and clean with bore with hot water (only water dissolves salts- ammonia solutions are thought to clean, but it's not the ammonia that does the cleaning, it's the water that is the other half of the solution that best dissolves the salts) at the end of the day, follow with oil or kroil and you're good to go. Don't over think it too much. The Finns didn't.
I found Czech silvertip to be very accurate, as well as MFS surplus in both 185 and 203 grains. 203 was actually more accurate than 185 on the average. Nothing beat 7N1 though- that stuff was wild in the couple of 39's I put it through.
In reloads, I used 174 0.311 SMKs over ~41 gr of IMR4064 or 4895. Varget also works well. This load will not be the limiting factor in accuracy. Velocity will be around 2200 fps and will be correct to 'historical' specifications- so your sight ladder will be correct.
Last tip: for the money that these things are going for right now, go buy a Tikka, any Tikka (or Sako), and enjoy having a rifle that is the pinnacle of 90 years of Mosin-based engineering beginning with the M27 series, some of which were rebuilt at a small machine shop in Tikkakoski, Finland. If you're an exceptionally astute collector, you may find a matching sewing machine to compliment your rifle. When the craze finally subsides, you'll be able to find or import examples for much more reasonable rates. This current round is fair market for fools.
Thanks for that info - I currently reload for my SVT-40 using .311 174gn Hornady projectiles, along with IMR4064. Will just need some brass looks like for the M39 then.
Where have I heard those price remarks before? Oh yeah... From guys who thing m1's should still be $300 and Longbranches should be $250 max.
The rest of your advice is sound, but tradex has just sold over 100 m39's at $900 and up. I would suggest that is the market value field everyone now, not just fools.
Been looking for a nice M39 for a long time. I expect there won't be anymore, so naturally I jumped on this batch from TradeEx.
Paid over $1000 to the door and I've paid more for a modern hunting rifle, shotgun or handgun.
The rifle didn't disappoint. There might be millions of Mosins out there, but not Finnish Mosins.
Hence the collector and price values.
Paid over $1000 to the door and I've paid more for a modern hunting rifle, shotgun or handgun.
The rifle didn't disappoint. There might be millions of Mosins out there, but not Finnish Mosins.
Hence the collector and price values.
Now that I'm not on my phone, some better ammo info, ruthlessly stolen from 7.62x54r.com:
So the bottom line is the Finns had access to captured Russian ammo, both light and heavy ball, as well as several versions of domestic Finnish ammo. Some variants could only be used in certain guns (i.e. if you did not have a D marked chamber on an older model like an M24 or M27, you could not safely shoot D166 or Heavy Ball), but an M39 can shoot all of these rounds. The rear sight is calibrated for the Lapua D166 bullet, but I suspect there is not a big POI difference between it and the Soviet Heavy Ball at 100m.
So the bottom line is the Finns had access to captured Russian ammo, both light and heavy ball, as well as several versions of domestic Finnish ammo. Some variants could only be used in certain guns (i.e. if you did not have a D marked chamber on an older model like an M24 or M27, you could not safely shoot D166 or Heavy Ball), but an M39 can shoot all of these rounds. The rear sight is calibrated for the Lapua D166 bullet, but I suspect there is not a big POI difference between it and the Soviet Heavy Ball at 100m.
Excellent! I'll source some Lapua D166 bullets.
I bought mine from Weimajack who got it from Tradex. I have been looking for a really decent M39 for a long time. My stepson, who doesn't really like milsurps has a thing for Mosins. I was pleased to see him take an interest so I gave him all but two of my Finn Mosins. He got two M39s, two M28s a couple of 91/30s and three excellent M91s. All of these Mosins are in close to or excellent condition. He really likes them but doesn't shoot them. He will shoot a Soviet 1943 91/30 on occasion but seeing as he tops out at 6ft 3in in his stocking feet, he just doesn't find them to be ergonomically correct and are uncomfortable to shoot.
Since I gave him that small collection, happily I might add, I have been looking for a VG+ M39 that was all matching and very clean/unworn inside and out. The rifle, VKT with D marked bbl and with a 1941 date has a tight bore. From what I have read, it is very possible this rifle was put together with a cut back M91, M91/30 or even M28 barrel. That's why it is important to measure the bores on your rifles rather than just speculate what may or may not work well. Especially if you're interested in achieving the best accuracy available from it. Most milsurps, if they are in VG+ or better condition will have accuracy potential every bit as good and even better than many late manufactured commercial rifles with decent ammo. Most owners/shooters just don't extend their research deeply enough and stick with surplus or commercially loaded ammo. One other example of this is are the Swiss K31 rifles. The GP11 surplus is great ammo but tailored handloads are better and more consistent IMHO. No reason why any Mosin in similar condition shouldn't be able to shoot as well as a K31 or even the fabled M96 Swedes.
A different approach-Had my 39 out last week for the first time in a few years. My load- Cast 314299 out of an old Ideal mould sized 311 over 22.0 grs of H4198. Best groups around an inch at 50 yds.
As always check "internet loads" with a reliable source before using.
As always check "internet loads" with a reliable source before using.
