READ the PATENT.
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Fireclean= Crisco.
- Thread starter Hilo71
- Start date
READ the PATENT.
yahhh, absolutely not crisco, no
probably something similar in composition to crisco, yes
that spectroanalysis looks like a very similar composition to crisco
dealing in absolutes negatives after seeing that graph? ridiculous!
And then you get those shiny guns real dirty or, god forbid, the weather drops well below freezing..
Wax. Dirt. Cold. Sounds like a winning trio to me!
Yeah, I'm really not sure if I think it's worse in combination with dirt and cold or dirt and heat...but it's not great.
Thankfully, most guns have such minimal lubrication requirements that you can get away with using pretty mediocre products on them. But if your shooting schedule or conditions become demanding...
Personally I just can't get into using expensive products with obvious performance drawbacks when motor oil and bearing grease is dirt cheap, and has multiple orders of magnitude greater actual research put into its anti-wear, anti-friction, and anti-corrosion properties.
Honestly I have no problem with fireclean and if canola works for your application, great. It's definitely a step up from olefin. My only concern would be whether it's going to work if you leave your gun in a safe for six months...other than that, it's so thin you'll have to replace it regularly anyway and it's easy to do so, so what the hell. Rape your gun every 500-1000 rounds and it'll probably run great. And if the oil happens to do a good job of keeping carbon in suspension, well, minor side benefit. I doubt it does that any better than Mobil-1, but maybe it does. If so, it's got a bunch of other stuff it does worse, but most of that stuff probably doesn't matter much on guns that get lubed regularly anyway. Like I said, you can really use lousy lubes on guns and get away with it.
I just wouldn't pay fireclean prices for vegetable oil, when I could pay vegetable oil prices for vegetable oil. Or machine oil prices for machine oil, motor oil prices for motor oil, or bearing grease prices for bearing grease.
Thankfully, most guns have such minimal lubrication requirements that you can get away with using pretty mediocre products on them. But if your shooting schedule or conditions become demanding...
Personally I just can't get into using expensive products with obvious performance drawbacks when motor oil and bearing grease is dirt cheap, and has multiple orders of magnitude greater actual research put into its anti-wear, anti-friction, and anti-corrosion properties.
Honestly I have no problem with fireclean and if canola works for your application, great. It's definitely a step up from olefin. My only concern would be whether it's going to work if you leave your gun in a safe for six months...other than that, it's so thin you'll have to replace it regularly anyway and it's easy to do so, so what the hell. Rape your gun every 500-1000 rounds and it'll probably run great. And if the oil happens to do a good job of keeping carbon in suspension, well, minor side benefit. I doubt it does that any better than Mobil-1, but maybe it does. If so, it's got a bunch of other stuff it does worse, but most of that stuff probably doesn't matter much on guns that get lubed regularly anyway. Like I said, you can really use lousy lubes on guns and get away with it.
I just wouldn't pay fireclean prices for vegetable oil, when I could pay vegetable oil prices for vegetable oil. Or machine oil prices for machine oil, motor oil prices for motor oil, or bearing grease prices for bearing grease.
- Location
- Ottawa origanally Muskoka
One thing I do know is that contrary to these 2 products claims, gunzilla and bore butter do NOT offer corrosion resistance.
Best stuff I've yet used for long term storage is a spray on clear slime called: RUST CURE formula 3000.
ATF fluid works good to but drips off over time and makes a mess of things if storage is the goal
As a general lubricant motor oil works. As does eds red as a general purpose cleaner
As a QD spray cleaner non chlorinated brake cleaner works well and is also cheaper than any gun cleaning specific spray.
Now recently I had Otis copper cleaner and Hoppes foaming bore cleaner given to me...the both work excelent....now if I can just find a substitue for them. The foming action is from the bottle its self but the solution is what I want
Best stuff I've yet used for long term storage is a spray on clear slime called: RUST CURE formula 3000.
ATF fluid works good to but drips off over time and makes a mess of things if storage is the goal
As a general lubricant motor oil works. As does eds red as a general purpose cleaner
As a QD spray cleaner non chlorinated brake cleaner works well and is also cheaper than any gun cleaning specific spray.
Now recently I had Otis copper cleaner and Hoppes foaming bore cleaner given to me...the both work excelent....now if I can just find a substitue for them. The foming action is from the bottle its self but the solution is what I want
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
He didn't mention a huge trigger recall did he?
And the plot thickens....
[h=1]Severe Problems With Vickers Tactical FireClean Video[/h]
Again we see a PPU case with a brass primer ejecting. There is a little more smoke and we are told it is because of the CLP. We can see the projectile of the subsequent round and it appears to be shiny, as we would expect a factory FMJ projectile to be.
Finally, at approximately 8 minutes and 30 seconds, Larry fires the M9 again, this time having been cleaned and lubricated with FireClean. Immediately upon ejection, the spent case emits quite a lot of smoke – much more than the previous two rounds. And then the case spins around and the headstamp comes into view…
Beretta M9, FireClean, Cor-Bon case, nickel colored primer That is a different colored primer. More than that, it’s a Cor-Bon 9mm Luger +P headstamp.
etc
etc
etc
etc
link: http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/genera...and-omissions/where-theres-smoke-theres-liar/
video:
[video=youtube;S0OAsOCEJfQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=33&v=S0OAsOCEJfQ[/video]
[h=1]Severe Problems With Vickers Tactical FireClean Video[/h]
Again we see a PPU case with a brass primer ejecting. There is a little more smoke and we are told it is because of the CLP. We can see the projectile of the subsequent round and it appears to be shiny, as we would expect a factory FMJ projectile to be.
Finally, at approximately 8 minutes and 30 seconds, Larry fires the M9 again, this time having been cleaned and lubricated with FireClean. Immediately upon ejection, the spent case emits quite a lot of smoke – much more than the previous two rounds. And then the case spins around and the headstamp comes into view…
Beretta M9, FireClean, Cor-Bon case, nickel colored primer That is a different colored primer. More than that, it’s a Cor-Bon 9mm Luger +P headstamp.etc
etc
etc
etc
link: http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/genera...and-omissions/where-theres-smoke-theres-liar/
video:
[video=youtube;S0OAsOCEJfQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=33&v=S0OAsOCEJfQ[/video]
LAV has said they were using commercially reloaded ammo, which sounded a bit suspect but he did cite a specific commercial reloader that does use a mix of nickel and brass primers, and also if that's a legitimate +P round it recoils exactly like a PPU non +P in the slow-motion footage... which seems unlikely.
All kidding aside, I am not entirely certain where Andrew's going with these blog entries. That Fireclean is plant-based wasn't really ever in contention. That it seems to work quite well also seems to be pretty well-evidenced, or at least relatively well-reported by most users, the majority of which are not paid spokesmen. If he's claiming it's simply overpriced, then he needs to do more than show off an IR spec chart of the supposed makeup, because a product's cost needs to bear out far more than the basic raw materials from which a product is constructed (costs of marketing, R&D, staffing, manufacturing, packaging, post-sale support, etc etc). If he's claiming it's overhyped, then he should probably give it a functional test, because what it's made of matters less than how well it works, for all intents and purposes. Because alleging Fireclean is similiar to Crisco doesn't really amount to a hill of beans; you can just as easily say gear oil is similar to motor oil elementally, but you sure as #### wouldn't run it in an engine. Similar is not a synonym for same.
Finally, I have a serious problem with how this whole thing's been brought up, and the reaction it's caused. I'm no LAV fanboy, but bet let's be honest; the guy's a hell of a lot more invested in his business than Vuurwapenblog is his blog. Somehow, a bunch of people are taking the relatively uneducated word of a blogger over that of a guy who works in the firearm industry, and has a pretty solid track record of backing quality products, even as a paid spokesman. And by that I mean, the guy's taken spokesmen positions in support of Daniel Defense, Aimpoint, BCM, Wilson Combat and now Fireclean. All are products with good reputations. And it shouldn't come as a surprise that the guy backs quality stuff because he simply must know that the day he backs some crappy over-rated junk, the reputation he started building years ago and all the credibility he has as an ex-Delta/SOF guy goes out the window... and his business and all the very real money he's invested in his business will go out the window right there with them. Because let's face it, if you see a guy hocking the pew-pew version of a Shamwow, you won't care what his resume says because you know he sold out.
On the other hand, you have a blogger, which almost no accountability and certainly nowhere near the investment in his blog/business. People are claiming LAV bull####ted his way through this one, but no one is asking why Andrew didn't pony up the $350 it would have cost him to do a proper mass-spec of Fireclean. ####, he must have spent double that on his cutaway AR receiver... you know, the one where he sold everyone on the Vltor A5 because it eliminated the dreaded (but crucially undetectable to the naked eye) bolt bounce. I mean sure, bolt bounce really doesn't matter whatsoever unless you're shooting full-auto, but hey... he didn't really need to make a big fuss about that in the video when he was selling...erm... I mean "reviewing" buffers, right? Who knows, maybe he spent all his money on that fancy AR and all those buffers, so he had none to spare for a mass spec? Or maybe he knew a $350 mass spec would reward him with a blog post that would be entitled "Fireclean isn't Crisco," and that wouldn't net nearly as many hits.
At the end of the day you've got one guy that has everything to lose by selling out and/or bull####ting his audience about the efficacy of a product. On the other you've got a blogger that spent damn near a hundred bucks on "combat flip flops" but doesn't want to bother paying $350 for a proper test. Oh... and who has basically nothing to lose and everything to gain my being inflammatory, right up until he gets sued. Just my two cents.
All kidding aside, I am not entirely certain where Andrew's going with these blog entries. That Fireclean is plant-based wasn't really ever in contention. That it seems to work quite well also seems to be pretty well-evidenced, or at least relatively well-reported by most users, the majority of which are not paid spokesmen. If he's claiming it's simply overpriced, then he needs to do more than show off an IR spec chart of the supposed makeup, because a product's cost needs to bear out far more than the basic raw materials from which a product is constructed (costs of marketing, R&D, staffing, manufacturing, packaging, post-sale support, etc etc). If he's claiming it's overhyped, then he should probably give it a functional test, because what it's made of matters less than how well it works, for all intents and purposes. Because alleging Fireclean is similiar to Crisco doesn't really amount to a hill of beans; you can just as easily say gear oil is similar to motor oil elementally, but you sure as #### wouldn't run it in an engine. Similar is not a synonym for same.
Finally, I have a serious problem with how this whole thing's been brought up, and the reaction it's caused. I'm no LAV fanboy, but bet let's be honest; the guy's a hell of a lot more invested in his business than Vuurwapenblog is his blog. Somehow, a bunch of people are taking the relatively uneducated word of a blogger over that of a guy who works in the firearm industry, and has a pretty solid track record of backing quality products, even as a paid spokesman. And by that I mean, the guy's taken spokesmen positions in support of Daniel Defense, Aimpoint, BCM, Wilson Combat and now Fireclean. All are products with good reputations. And it shouldn't come as a surprise that the guy backs quality stuff because he simply must know that the day he backs some crappy over-rated junk, the reputation he started building years ago and all the credibility he has as an ex-Delta/SOF guy goes out the window... and his business and all the very real money he's invested in his business will go out the window right there with them. Because let's face it, if you see a guy hocking the pew-pew version of a Shamwow, you won't care what his resume says because you know he sold out.
On the other hand, you have a blogger, which almost no accountability and certainly nowhere near the investment in his blog/business. People are claiming LAV bull####ted his way through this one, but no one is asking why Andrew didn't pony up the $350 it would have cost him to do a proper mass-spec of Fireclean. ####, he must have spent double that on his cutaway AR receiver... you know, the one where he sold everyone on the Vltor A5 because it eliminated the dreaded (but crucially undetectable to the naked eye) bolt bounce. I mean sure, bolt bounce really doesn't matter whatsoever unless you're shooting full-auto, but hey... he didn't really need to make a big fuss about that in the video when he was selling...erm... I mean "reviewing" buffers, right? Who knows, maybe he spent all his money on that fancy AR and all those buffers, so he had none to spare for a mass spec? Or maybe he knew a $350 mass spec would reward him with a blog post that would be entitled "Fireclean isn't Crisco," and that wouldn't net nearly as many hits.
At the end of the day you've got one guy that has everything to lose by selling out and/or bull####ting his audience about the efficacy of a product. On the other you've got a blogger that spent damn near a hundred bucks on "combat flip flops" but doesn't want to bother paying $350 for a proper test. Oh... and who has basically nothing to lose and everything to gain my being inflammatory, right up until he gets sued. Just my two cents.
Damn... some people actually sell veggie oil as gun lube, FFS? One born every minute, I guess!
I once "oiled" my pocket knife (Spyderco) with canola oil, because it was used primarily for cutting food and peeling fruit and I didn't want to eat any smelly chemicals of the "3 in 1" oil that works exceptionally well (it was my "lunch at work" knife, lol). In any case, after about two weeks or so, the knife became very hard to open and developed a smell of stale oil. Upon inspection, it was gummed up inside and required a throughout cleaning with WD40 to restore functionality and eliminate the sticky canola oil residue on moving parts... and it was never exposed to any UV rays, by the way. Just air.
That being said, I would NEVER put vegetable oil in a gun unless it was some sort of a survival emergency and I had no other option, as it would more than likely gum up the sh*t out of the internals... and the whole idea sounds like some southern good'ole boys' poor attempt at a scam (pump veggie oil into tiny bottles and sell off as gun lube for a HUGE premium!).
What's next? "High performance" vegetable engine oil for cars??? How dumb can some people be, lol...
I once "oiled" my pocket knife (Spyderco) with canola oil, because it was used primarily for cutting food and peeling fruit and I didn't want to eat any smelly chemicals of the "3 in 1" oil that works exceptionally well (it was my "lunch at work" knife, lol). In any case, after about two weeks or so, the knife became very hard to open and developed a smell of stale oil. Upon inspection, it was gummed up inside and required a throughout cleaning with WD40 to restore functionality and eliminate the sticky canola oil residue on moving parts... and it was never exposed to any UV rays, by the way. Just air.
That being said, I would NEVER put vegetable oil in a gun unless it was some sort of a survival emergency and I had no other option, as it would more than likely gum up the sh*t out of the internals... and the whole idea sounds like some southern good'ole boys' poor attempt at a scam (pump veggie oil into tiny bottles and sell off as gun lube for a HUGE premium!).
What's next? "High performance" vegetable engine oil for cars??? How dumb can some people be, lol...
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Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
just use G96 and be done with it. It lubes, cleans and prevents rust, end of story
^^^ This.
I've used G96 CLP for years and have nothing but good thing to say about it.
http://www.archoil.com/industries-served/
get the proper industry stuff, non toxic too, synthetic doesn't have to be toxic. anything organic will break down and gum up your gun.
get the proper industry stuff, non toxic too, synthetic doesn't have to be toxic. anything organic will break down and gum up your gun.
This stuff works if you wanna pay for it. If you've got a lot of guns and shoot a lot, DILLIGAF has you covered lol.
