Firing cartridges designed for African game for no good reason.

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I must slightly disagree with a previous post here, that lumps the 416 Rigby with a 404 375 and a couple others in terms of recoil. The Rigby when loaded to it's modern potential and equal pressure to the 375 H&H is a SIGNIFICANT step up in recoil. Certainly not to the unmanageable level but a whole new league for sure. There is a group of relatively ugly recoiling cartridges into which a modern 416 Rigby falls, these include the 378 Wby, possibly the max loaded 375 RUM, the 416 Wby, the 460 Wby and several of the larger mid bore wildcats. These cartridges, due to bullet weight and velocity, have a very short recoil time and a relatively high recoil energy. These 2 things combined can make for a very difficult rifle/cartridge combo to master, having far more perceived recoil than my double 470.
OP.......as to your question, I would avoid the 416s just because of current component shortages. Were this not a factor I might readily recommend a 416 Taylor, which I have shot extensively and used in Africa on my first hunt there. But alas reality is what it is and component shortages are a very real concern. Given this consideration you would likely be best advised to stick with the 375s or jump up to the 458s where there seems to be a reasonable quantity of available components for these two calibers. I'm fairly certain the various 375s need no review here from me, they are excellent cartridges and moderate recoilers. The 45s are, or can be, a big step up and can tax your concentration when recreational shooting. However they will allow you to desensitize yourself to recoil at a much higher level, if you wish to, than will the 375s. Guess it all depends on how much fun you really want to have..........If you really want to have all the fun you can stand with a factory cartridge and rifle then allow me recommend the 460 Wby in a Mark V or the 505 Gibbs in the CZ...........
 
C-fbmi, thank you for the opinion you posted above ^^^

How do you feel the .458 win mag firing 500gr factory loads at +2000 fps fits into the recoil scale? Everything I've read so far tells me it isn't the worst but is still at the high end for recoil.

Sorry for the hi-jack but I just impulse bought a Ruger #1 in .458 win and must admit I'm scared to fire it. It came with a box of shells of which only 3 were fired....
 
klaus enuff said:
C-fbmi, thank you for the opinion you posted above ^^^

How do you feel the .458 win mag firing 500gr factory loads at +2000 fps fits into the recoil scale? Everything I've read so far tells me it isn't the worst but is still at the high end for recoil.

Sorry for the hi-jack but I just impulse bought a Ruger #1 in .458 win and must admit I'm scared to fire it. It came with a box of shells of which only 3 were fired....
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The .458 win will let you k ow it's there...... It produces almost the same energy as a .470 nitro express........
 
I have several 40 cals & up. My 375 H&H is pleasant to shoot. The recoil is manageable with some practice. My 458 Lott, and 450 Rigby thump like hell but to be honest my 416 Rigby probably is the most uncomfortable to shoot. My 404 Jeffery is nice to shoot as well. After firing the 458's & 404 off hand the 375 feels like a 30/06. There are multiple things you can do to mitigate recoil (decelerator recoils pads, mercury recoil reducers, stock design, etc). Of all the large cal's I have I really like the 404.
One consideration for you might be the 9.3x62. Great calibre and can be used for big meanies in a pinch as well. Recoil less than 375H&H.
Have fun!
 
Why do I have the feeling that I will soon be passing on this rifle to someone else but with 16 rounds...

I've fired 45/70 loaded "hottish" and 3" 12g rounds. M38 Mosin with the steel butt plate is fine. Am I over thinking this?
 
klaus enuff said:
Why do I have the feeling that I will soon be passing on this rifle to someone else but with 16 rounds...

I've fired 45/70 loaded "hottish" and 3" 12g rounds. M38 Mosin with the steel butt plate is fine. Am I over thinking this?
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I'm with you. It's called self preservation! I've shot all you listed except the 45/70. My biggest recoil experience is with a .338 Winmag. That was enough.
 
klaus enuff said:
C-fbmi, thank you for the opinion you posted above ^^^

How do you feel the .458 win mag firing 500gr factory loads at +2000 fps fits into the recoil scale? Everything I've read so far tells me it isn't the worst but is still at the high end for recoil.

Sorry for the hi-jack but I just impulse bought a Ruger #1 in .458 win and must admit I'm scared to fire it. It came with a box of shells of which only 3 were fired....
Click to expand...

I had and shot a #1 in 458 a fair amount, I personally liked the cartridge but did not like it chambered in this rifle. I found the #1 to be too small in the butt cross sectional area and the recoil pad to be almost worthless. The stock has too much drop (in my opinion) for a cartridge with this much recoil and they are too light. Having said all this, the #1 was one of the most accurate rifles I have ever fired. I shot several 3 shot groups at 100 mtrs, with the factory sights, that all went into a ragged Mickey Mouse. Two of these groups were on the same day with some old factory W-W yellow box. These old factory loads also chronographed at 2165 fps, however 2 from the box also shed their primers upon extraction.
To answer your question directly though, the 458 is definitely getting into the low upper end of manageable recoil. Some will find it unmanageable certainly, but given enough lead up and practice it is not for most people, who have a will to shoot it. Do not be afraid of it though as it will not actually hurt you, wear some appropriate clothing with a heavy canvas or similar material type jacket and possibly a light sweater under this and take her out and wail away with it, OFFHAND. Do not shoot it from a bench until you are 100% familiar with it and use a good stance similar to a trap shooter to minimize recoil and excessive movement and muzzle lift. I'll bet after the first 2 or 3 you will break into a giggle and before you know it the box will be gone and all the rocks within 70 mtrs of you will be smashed..........
 
Thank you for the reply, it's always good to hear from the guys who have been there and done it.

I'm picking the gun up tomorrow and hopefully will get a chance to fire it on the weekend. I'll post a follow-up if I survive the experience.

As an aside the .458 was one of a pair of #1's that I bought (got a bargain deal from an estate) and the other is in .300 win mag. I think I will fire my Mosin, then my 1886 45/70 and the .300 before I attempt the 458.
 
klaus enuff said:
C-fbmi, thank you for the opinion you posted above ^^^

How do you feel the .458 win mag firing 500gr factory loads at +2000 fps fits into the recoil scale? Everything I've read so far tells me it isn't the worst but is still at the high end for recoil.

Sorry for the hi-jack but I just impulse bought a Ruger #1 in .458 win and must admit I'm scared to fire it. It came with a box of shells of which only 3 were fired....
Click to expand...

I was scared of my .500s&w when I got it too.....its and experience, but I can handle it. "Rock back" with the recoil.....and have fun
 
klaus enuff said:
Thank you for the reply, it's always good to hear from the guys who have been there and done it.

I'm picking the gun up tomorrow and hopefully will get a chance to fire it on the weekend. I'll post a follow-up if I survive the experience.

As an aside the .458 was one of a pair of #1's that I bought (got a bargain deal from an estate) and the other is in .300 win mag. I think I will fire my Mosin, then my 1886 45/70 and the .300 before I attempt the 458.
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I have owned two No.1-H .458's, a WM and a Lott, and didn't find them an more uncomfortable than in the CZ bolt... but they are spritely no doubt... I shot a hot-loaded .45 Basic for some time and in a light single platform... tore me and eventually the rifle apart. The ease of loading the .458's down with cast bullets is the attraction for me... making them a more realistic tool for NA as well as a potential tool for anything, anywhere...
 
klaus enuff said:
C-fbmi, thank you for the opinion you posted above ^^^

How do you feel the .458 win mag firing 500gr factory loads at +2000 fps fits into the recoil scale? Everything I've read so far tells me it isn't the worst but is still at the high end for recoil.

Sorry for the hi-jack but I just impulse bought a Ruger #1 in .458 win and must admit I'm scared to fire it. It came with a box of shells of which only 3 were fired....
Click to expand...


I can take 8 shots prone on bags with mine. 500 gr woodlieghs at a shade over 2200 fps. At the 8 th round my whole right arm slows right down and I can really feel it on my collar bone and shoulder pocket. An hour after its hard to raise my arm. That's prone on bags. The butt sits higher on my shoulder. More on top than in front. Standing I can take ten shots before I start to feel a flinch. No soreness or stiffness after.
 
Thanks for everyone's tips and advice. It has a leupold scope already mounted so I'm going to be very careful not to scope myself. I'm definitely going to shoot standing to start (of course paying attention to my grip and stance) before possibly trying for a group off the bench. This will be the largest calibre I've shot to date in a rifle. I've shot .44 mag and 500 s&w in revolvers and a desert eagle in .50ae before and while they were a handful (pun intended) I felt they were manageable.

I'm sure that I've more than likely built it up in my head to be worse than it actually is and just need to buck up and try it.
 
Well after MUCH discussion with some groups on Facebook and other local people I have changed course and went with 9.3x57 I have a source of reloading components and factory ammo and my local gunsmith is well versed in the model of rifle and calibre I chose. I will be using it for moose, black bear and possibly white tail this season. Should be more then enough. once it arrives it will be getting a new Nikon prostaff scope. I hope it works out. Here is a pic of the actual rifle from the tradex site I placed the order from it is a Husqvarna Commercial M96 sporter. From everything I was wanting. This makes a lot more sense then the .416. This 9.3x57 is bigger then what my buddies are using right now and nobody I hunt with has even heard of it. so good!

27846835121_9029d23582_b.jpg
 
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rci2950 said:
Well after MUCH discussion with some groups on Facebook and other local people I have changed course and went with 9.3x57 I have a source of reloading components and factory ammo and my local gunsmith is well versed in the model of rifle and calibre I chose. I will be using it for moose, black bear and possibly white tail this season. Should be more then enough. once it arrives it will be getting a new Nikon prostaff scope. I hope it works out. Here is a pic of the actual rifle from the tradex site I placed the order from it is a Husqvarna Commercial M96 sporter. From everything I was wanting. This makes a lot more sense then the .416. This 9.3x57 is bigger then what my buddies are using right now and nobody I hunt with has even heard of it. so good!

27846835121_9029d23582_b.jpg
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Just be aware that you may have issues mounting the Nikon without offset rings....... I have a couple of rifles with a prostaff on them myself and they are modern short tube scopes...... Let me know if you need some offsets, I have a few sets of weavers hanging around......
 
Superbrad said:
Just be aware that you may have issues mounting the Nikon without offset rings....... I have a couple of rifles with a prostaff on them myself and they are modern short tube scopes...... Let me know if you need some offsets, I have a few sets of weavers hanging around......
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Awesome. If I run into issues I will give you a PM. Thanks!
 
DealersAdvocate said:
For those in the know... How does the 37H&H or the .416 stack up in terms of recoil compared to 3"shotgun slugs or 3.5" magnum loads? How much of a step up are we talking?
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My .375 is a pussycat, but it's a 9 pound rifle........ If I compare it to shooting a 3" slug from a Cooey single, I woukd pretty much call it a draw.......
 
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