First 1911 build

M

MadcapMagician

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Hey all

Just recently got my restricted back. The oils not yet completely cleaned off the first three pistols I've purchased and now I've got my eye on 1911 in 45ACP.

The question I ask is which one do I start with?

My plan is to over time add replacement and upgraded components to it to make it "my own" I know a lot of people are going to say to just buy a decent one right off the bat but I want to build my own.

So what's the best place to start? Norc 1911 Gov? Dirt cheap. See one NIB shipped for $300 on the EE right now. Or is it worth spending $75 more for a SAM?

Are the pistols themselves (quality, metal, function) different between the lower end ones? I don't care how much I put into it over the long term. I just want to make sure a Norc or Dominion will ultimately last as long as the other brands.

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated. And like I said. By the time it's done it will probably be worth triple the retail on it. But I don't care. It will be a year or two long project.
 
From my own research (not first hand experience) the SAM 1911's are good quality but not necessarily milspec. This may be an issue for you if you intend to upgrade the internals down the road.
 
Well... a similar question has popped up in my tumblr dashboard out of the US. A trimmed down version of the answer is build it off a Fusion Firearms kit (http://www.fusionfirearms.com). I now really want to do this now!
EDIT: Sorry, I hadn't gotten down to this thread (http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1199781-1911-scratch-builds?highlight=1911) until after this post.

Now, back to your question: I've read a few times of 1911s that have 'non-standard' firing pin safety etc, Kimbers being one of them. So with you plan, I'd recommend that do some research on whatever brand you're looking at and try to find out if you can actually get upgrade parts for it. From my understanding Colt (specifically their 80 Series now) is the 'standard' for 1911s, so I'll go out on a limb and say that is what you'll want for a basis.
Now, personally, I don't know how much changing out internal parts is going to make it "yours". But I do understand what you're after (it's why I 'built' my AR).
 
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Thanks for the info guys. I realize the amount of things to actually change is limited as far as internals go.I'll also be doing some sort of nice paint job to make her look purdy.

Does anyone have an hands on experince with the difference between Norc 1911 Gov and the Norc Two Tone 1911. According to the Can Ammo site its got a few upgrades. Lightened hammer. Skeletonized trigger. Is it worth paying the extra $50.00 for these upgrades? Looks nice though.
 
I shot a guys new norc last month. It was one of the new fancy models. Rattled like a snake.

Why not buy a decent gun, shoot the snot out of it, learn its quirks, figure out what you don't like and do like THEN worry about mods?

Jumping into a new platform with farkle madness is a mistake. Trust me.
 
Mark-II said:
I shot a guys new norc last month. It was one of the new fancy models. Rattled like a snake.

Why not buy a decent gun, shoot the snot out of it, learn its quirks, figure out what you don't like and do like THEN worry about mods?

Jumping into a new platform with farkle madness is a mistake. Trust me.
Click to expand...

What rattled on his? Is that something that can be fixed?
 
Slide to frame fit was very loose. How to fix that is above my level of experience.

For me what made the most difference in my guns was simple stuff like changing grips, finding out I liked the arched MSH and swapping those out, grinding annoying bumps off of grip safeties.

And learning just how much you can improve the trigger by learning how to carefully tweak the 3 finger spring.

I'm now starting to polish internal fire control parts and at the same time really begin to understand how the whole thing works.

But other than some tools all I buy are grips, mainspring housings, and spare springs from Wolfe ;)
 
Mark-II said:
Slide to frame fit was very loose. How to fix that is above my level of experience.

For me what made the most difference in my guns was simple stuff like changing grips, finding out I liked the arched MSH and swapping those out, grinding annoying bumps off of grip safeties.

And learning just how much you can improve the trigger by learning how to carefully tweak the 3 finger spring.

I'm now starting to polish internal fire control parts and at the same time really begin to understand how the whole thing works.

But other than some tools all I buy are grips, mainspring housings, and spare springs from Wolfe ;)
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Gotcha. I've heard the slide/frame area is a weak point on some pistols. I'd like to be in the same place in learning how the entire system works.

I'll be biting the bullet soon and choosing my 1911. I think purely based on availability and price I may go for the Norc 1911 Gov. Dirt cheap. Won't be stressed to bang the crap out of it.
 
Maybe you should check out the prices on gun parts, the only ones that I have really bought are springs and even a simple spring can run $20+.
From an economic standpoint putting money into a Norc. may not be the best investment you could make, and if you don't know what you are doing there is the possibility that the gun will get even worse than it was before you started on it.
I hate to be negative but I could see buying an unmolested Norc and fixing the parts that came with it just to see if it can run better with a bit of fit and finish.
 
Skinny 1950 said:
Maybe you should check out the prices on gun parts, the only ones that I have really bought are springs and even a simple spring can run $20+.
From an economic standpoint putting money into a Norc. may not be the best investment you could make, and if you don't know what you are doing there is the possibility that the gun will get even worse than it was before you started on it.
I hate to be negative but I could see buying an unmolested Norc and fixing the parts that came with it just to see if it can run better with a bit of fit and finish.
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I'm not to worried about resale value as I vowed never to sell any of my firearms again. Many sad sad days of regret. I ended up biting the bullet and ordered a Norc 1911 Gov off another Nut on the west coast. Looking forward to puttering on it.
 
Marcel B. said:
I think it's funny that people think they're "building" a gun by swapping out parts and slapping on a coat of paint.

No offense.
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Of course no one thinks they're literally building a gun. There is no manufacturing. But its making something your own and fitting the parts. Without being a machinist or a fabricator it's as close as the rest of us can get. Its like building a model plane. You assemble it. Its already made.

All about a sense if accomplishment and learning
 
Learning the ins and outs of any gun is always a good thing!

I always feel a sense of accomplishment when I make a set of grips for a handgun, or hand checker a stock, hand file square checkering on a flat mainspring housing or other parts, make a part by hand that isn't available, etc.

It's all good. ;)

:cheers:
 
These threads keep coming up like magic mushrooms in the forest, here's your answer.

Norinco:
+5100 grade steel
+cheap
+reliable
+forged parts
+chrome lined barrel
-sloppy fit and finish
-no warranty
-needs de-horning
-poor triggers

SAM:
+best fit and finish for your money by far
+super tight tolerences
+backed by warranty
+made by people who have been making guns their entire lives
+great triggers out of box
-cast+mim parts
-questionable service life
-4### steel
-non chrome lined barrel

Get a Norc to trust your life with, or get a SAM to enjoy shooting a 1911.
 
add to the above;

Norcs are heat treated
Sames are SPOT heat treated.

not really make or break for 99% of people out there but if you ever plan on going Frankenstein on the gun into anything bigger (45-08, 460Rowland ect ect) then youd need the Norc because of the heat treatment.

as for 1911's i put them in 1 of 2 categories when im looking at buying.
the 1st is guns that are cheap and can or will need work on them.
the 2nd is guns that i know i wont have to touch out of the box other then cosmetic stuff (grips)

norc's are category 1.
Sam's are category 2.

further to that, keep in mind that SAMs are hand fit by fellas that have been doing it for years and years.
so while people will say they are not mil spec that is because they have been fitted and when you fit you alter to make it tight and smooth.
norcs are not fit but rather mass produced assembly line.
also keep in mind that no part that you add onto a 1911 should just drop in.
you should have to file/sand/buff any part you add onto a 1911 to get it to fit perfectly.

for what youve said in your posts id say go with a Norc for sure.
you sound like you want to tinker.
the SAMs while being nice i would say are not really tinkering guns.
they have been dehorned and fit to run nice, so anything you do to them your going to have to work at to get it to mesh in.

Norcs on the other hand are ruff and tuff and need a lot of work to make them nice.
and they are easy to add stuff onto since they are ruff.

i have both Norc and SAMs and id recommend either to anyone.
but if you want to tinker get a norc.
if you want to shoot out of the box and not worry about tinkering get a SAM.
 
Conscript said:
These threads keep coming up like magic mushrooms in the forest, here's your answer.

Norinco:
+5100 grade steel
+cheap
+reliable
+forged parts
+chrome lined barrel
-sloppy fit and finish
-no warranty
-needs de-horning
-poor triggers

SAM:
+best fit and finish for your money by far
+super tight tolerences
+backed by warranty
+made by people who have been making guns their entire lives
+great triggers out of box
-cast+mim parts
-questionable service life
-4### steel
-non chrome lined barrel

Get a Norc to trust your life with, or get a SAM to enjoy shooting a 1911.
Click to expand...

i know the barrels are 4140
and SAM website lists all their guns as being 4140

SLIDE: 4140 MATTE BLACK ROUND 1911 w/ REAR MILITARY SERRATION
BARREL: 5” MATTE BLACK 4140 STANDARD
FRAME: MATTE BLACK 1911 STANDARD
Click to expand...
 
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Buy an already modified Colt, that will bring the cost down and then you can modify it to what you want. If that's too pricy, go with the Norc, and modify accordingly. I prefer the earlier GM versions without the two tone or fancy front serrations etc. The sights suck, but they do on all the real GM's too. Fwiw - dan
 
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