First Antique Advice

LuckyLuc82

LuckyLuc82

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So I decided to get an antique. No idea where to get one or how to know I'm getting a decent deal. So before I dump a pile of cash let me ask the (what's a antique collector/shooter called around the Internet?) for some advice.

I currently reload 38special can I get a tuned up antique thats still an antique, and can handle 38 special?

Where do I look? Who do I contact?

I also reload 45acp.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Keep in mind that any antique should not be firing full or +pressure cartridges without a very good understanding of what your gun can handle. It may not cause any immediate damage, but may cause wear and gradual degradation that cannot be fixed. I'm referrring to stretching and the such.

There are webleys in 45acp/45ar that are relatively common, well known guns with good parts availability and are very reliable. I personally shoot cast out of my antiques as the rifling simply doesn't stand up to modern jacketted ammo. As a beginner gun they're probably the best option.

Only other thing I should mention is that you get what you pay for. Buy an antique for cheap and it'll probably have problems, need work, or be in a caliber that is next to impossible to reload for. If you want a piece of gold that'll shoot like a brand new gun and be the envy of everyone, drop 2-5k and buy from dingus. If you want a tank that'll work well and you won't worry about shooting, drop 1-2k and buy from me :D


P.S. Also, condition is everything with antiques. Often there are no spare parts and they need to be made, and if there are spares they still need to be fitted. Ask all the questions you would normally about a pistol or revolvers - indexing, wear, looseness, pitting, lockup etc etc etc. Standard problems in antique revolvers are worn hands, cylinder gap, looseness in lockup and broken springs.
 
I think you need to look up to the top of the forum and read the antique regs. I think it is in the "link to antique regs" sticky you will find the regs scanned in. And the short answer re 38 special is that you would be skating on very thin ice with that one. There is a list of calibers considered modern that negate the date of manufacture portion of being an antique

I think you also need to ask yourself is why do you want the gun and what sort of gun do you want --- rifle, pistol, shotgun and what do you want to do with it. As HWally already said, you get what you pay for but your intended use can have a dramatic impact on the price of what you are buying. Related to how much do you want to spend is also how much do you want to spend on reloading supplies and components or alternately can you make them yourself.

cheers mooncoon
 
Before purchasing an antique, I would highly recommend you figure out what really interests you. It could be something about that period of history, or where that antique was used, or the manufacturer, or even the particular antique that really intrigues you. Once you narrow it down to one or two types, post a question on this forum to learn more about that particular type. Chances are, someone else here knows quite a bit about that particular antique and can give you further, detailed advice on what to look for (or look out for).
 
I'm really interested in a 1873 type single action revolver. They really appeal to me like no other guns in my collection. I currently have a pair of pietta 1873 clones and I love them. So I guess what I'm really looking for is a Restored tuned up Colt Single Action revolver in 45acp. I have tried restorations in the past and would take on another restoration if the right one came around, but with a busy work schedule I would prefer a ready to shoot unit.

Just to clarify, I'm not a shidiot or a troll, I love guns and enjoy collecting them more than shooting. I have tried cowboy action an enjoyed it. I want something not many people have. I know I'm an outsider in the antique community but as you can see from my trader rating I don't kick too many tires.
 
I personally shoot cast out of my antiques as the rifling simply doesn't stand up to modern jacketted ammo.
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I've also heard given the same load and bullet weight jacketted bullets are harder to send down the barrel therefore the end result is higher pressure. I always used lead in my antiques.

The Colt 1873 SAA is a great choice. They are a strong gun, a great design still made today by many manufacturers (that should tell you something) and NEW spare parts for original 1st gen guns are abundant. They are fairly easy to work on too, I recomment the JERRY KUHNHAUSEN book if you get one.

The only downside to them in price, especially a nicely restored one.
 
LuckyLuc82 said:
I'm really interested in a 1873 type single action revolver. them. So I guess what I'm really looking for is a Restored tuned up Colt Single Action revolver in 45acp.
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I think you would be wiser to go for one of the rimmed cartridges like 44 russian or 45 scofield (or have I got the two reversed)

cheers mooncoon
 
The SAA is an excellent quality but is they tend to be quite expensive - $3000 and up for shootable SAA antiques is kind of the norm, and usually $4000 or more.

If you load 45 acp already you might consider a webley MKI or MKII trhat has been modified to shoot 45acp with a moon clip. There are a lot of them around and loading components are easy to get. You would expect to pay in the range of $1400 - $1800 for a good to very good example. Moon clips are about $20 for 12 on ebay and readily available.

Another good starter antique revolver is the French M1892 8mm Service Revolver, aka the 8mm lebel revolver. Very good quality and well made, reloading dies are available on ebay usually, bullets are available in Canada, and brass can be made from 32-20 brass quite easily. These run from $600-$1200 range in excellent condition. In fact a dealer I know in the US offered me an excellent condition 8mm revolver with 98% finish remaining and perfect mechanical/bore - he said it appeared to be new/unissued - for approx US$800 including shipping to Canada and credit card fees. I already have one so I didn't take him up on it.

If you are talking to dealers/sellers ALWAYS make sure that you understand what the mechanical and bore condition is. "Good" means different things to different people, and "good" might not be very good at all. Ask if there is pitting in the bore and how much rifling. Ask if the action functions [properly and if there are any known defects - quite often they'll come back and tell you things that weren't mentioned in the ad.
 
mooncoon said:
And the short answer re 38 special is that you would be skating on very thin ice with that one. There is a list of calibers considered modern that negate the date of manufacture portion of being an antique
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I have a verbal confirmation (last week), and (hopefully!!) a letter (RCMP) on the way, that could finally put this ongoing .38sp debate to an end...

I will, of course, post full details, and back story, when I get final confirmation...
 
Shooting Bastard said:
I have a verbal confirmation (last week), and (hopefully!!) a letter (RCMP) on the way, that could finally put this ongoing .38sp debate to an end...

I will, of course, post full details, and back story, when I get final confirmation...
Click to expand...

What kind of confirmation are you expecting? I deregistered a gun converted from .38 Colt to .38spl and got an RCMP letter when it happened.
 
Apparently, some folks don't agree that .38sp should be on the OK list. When I bought my antique SAA, early in the summer, there was some debate, here in the antique section, on this topic. I was a bit worried, so contacted the seller. He assured me that it was ok, but that some still based their opinion on pre Bill C-68 wording of the regulations.

Now, I want to take the Colt to my local gunsmith. He refuses to let me onto his property, with an unregistered antique, in .38sp! Apparently he's great with antiques, and a very interesting, and quirky, hermit type fella. I want to cultivate a relationship with him, as he's our only local smith, and just 5 min down the road from me. He's quite well known, in some circles, worked as a verifier, and has imported hundreds of antiques. He says that he risks his licence, by logging in my revolver, so asked me, even though he figures that I'll be denied, to try to get a letter. :rolleyes:

Not wanting to end up "in the system", I have roped my sister, who does not yet have a PAL, to go through the process for me. Posing as a firearm noob, who wants to bring a Christmas present into the country, for her brother... ;)

In the end, it will be a good education for the guy. I certainly wont rub it in his face, and hope to bond with him, at least a bit. We have yet to meet face to face, but phonecalls have gone well. :cool:

Letter should be emailed by the end of the week....
 
LuckyLuc82 said:
I'm really interested in a 1873 type single action revolver. They really appeal to me like no other guns in my collection.
Click to expand...

Well that really narrows it down, then. A first generation Colt SAA is one of the more expensive antique pistols to acquire. One that is restored back to original mechanical condition with proper cylinder gap and zero end play is pretty rare. In addition to 45 ACP, some calibers available for the SAA antique are 44 Russian, 44 special and 45 Schofield. Of those three, the 45 Schofield is my favourite and can be loaded to duplicate original 45 Colt ballistics. It might be good to PM Dingus and see what he might have. If you can't find anything up here, you may have to bid on a restored one south of the border and then do the tune up yourself.
 
Shooting Bastard said:
Apparently, some folks don't agree that .38sp should be on the OK list. When I bought my antique SAA, early in the summer, there was some debate, here in the antique section, on this topic. I was a bit worried, so contacted the seller. He assured me that it was ok, but that some still based their opinion on pre Bill C-68 wording of the regulations.

Now, I want to take the Colt to my local gunsmith. He refuses to let me onto his property, with an unregistered antique, in .38sp! Apparently he's great with antiques, and a very interesting, and quirky, hermit type fella. I want to cultivate a relationship with him, as he's our only local smith, and just 5 min down the road from me. He's quite well known, in some circles, worked as a verifier, and has imported hundreds of antiques. He says that he risks his licence, by logging in my revolver, so asked me, even though he figures that I'll be denied, to try to get a letter. :rolleyes:

Not wanting to end up "in the system", I have roped my sister, who does not yet have a PAL, to go through the process for me. Posing as a firearm noob, who wants to bring a Christmas present into the country, for her brother... ;)

In the end, it will be a good education for the guy. I certainly wont rub it in his face, and hope to bond with him, at least a bit. We have yet to meet face to face, but phonecalls have gone well. :cool:

Letter should be emailed by the end of the week....
Click to expand...

I highly doubt your sister will be denied a letter, let us know how it goes.
 
Typically 45 acp SAA conversion is not too difficult if you start off with an original 45, I acquired a 2nd gen cylinder in 45 acp and it fits my first gen 45 SAA perfectly as a direct drop in, did not even need re-timing. I have it kicking around somewhere but to be honest I don't use it much as I much prefer it's current configuration in 45 Schofield. The other consideration is if you have 1st gen barrel likely need your bullets sized to at least .454 not the more common .452 for modern barrels. However you go, you won't go wrong with a nice Colt or Remington SAA.
 
I just received a nice PM from Dingus and I'll email him my wish list, anything I should be on the lookout for? I also had a thought, how hard/easy would it be to get a Antique Colt SAA in .22rf?
 
I have antique letters for SAA in 44 special and 38 special. This is not a new phenomenom and there is no controversy except in the minds of some people who think that the conversion means that an antique was butchered and defiled. I agree, with some reservations.

Neither 44 spl or 38 spl were in producton prior to 1898 and no antiques were originally chambered for either cartridge. I would strongly suggest that people should NOT destroy a nice example of an antique SAA just to convert it to an antique-legal chambering.

OTOH, I have bought antiques with mismatched s/n, non-factory plating or refinishing, unusable due to wear and corrosion and neglect with no intrinsic collector value. Using the frame of one of these derelict revolvers as a basis for a new build is NOT defiling an antique - it is a rejuvenation and a rescue of a worthy piece of history from the scrap heap. In those cases I see nothing wrong with rebuilding in any LEGAL cartridge chambering, which according to the laws of Canada includes 44spl and 38 spl.

It has always amused me how the purists and collectors would turn up their noses at the mismatched, damaged, period refinished or badly worn antiques and declare them as having no "collector value"... yet the same Gun Snobs snivel with derision when the very same "worthless" antique is rebuilt into a working firearm. Go figure.
 
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You best take that advice to read the regulations before you spend too much time having thoughts. .22 rimfire is not antique.
 
I would again like to say that this will be my first antique, I had no idea 22rf was not a antique cartridge. Based on the talk about 38/44specials I didn't think it would be that big of a deal. Learned something.
 
38 Special is AOK as a perscribed antique but not 22 Rf theres a few guys with 22 rf magnum Antiques but there not that common.
44 special /44 russian 45 acp 455 webley and 45 schofield 41 long colt are some other OK calibers that you will find SAA colts in.
 
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