First Big Budget AR-15 Project

It seems that there are alot of people out there with issues breaking bolts (or extractors?) on the .223/x39 conversion bolts. Were these Palamino kits dedicated x39 beefed up bolts like the CMMG Mutants?

beltfed said:
If you are going to shoot crappy Norinco ammo, I'd say any rifle will do even with a budget of $1000-1500.

You missed out on the Palomino 7.62x39 uppers Irunguns we're dealing with, but watch his threads as I bet they'll be working on more.
Click to expand...
 
If I was gonna spend 3K on an AR it would have at least an 18" barrel...

then I would buy a Norc or High Standard shortie upper to goof around with.. I mean they are only so much fun past 40-50 yards unless all you do is run and gun stuff.. IMHO

FTR I started with a 11.5" S&J barrelled upper, then got an 18" upper in addition, and just bought a 24" barrel target AR.. They are all fun, but if I was gonna spend big money I'd rather have the more valuable barrel included.. Also on my shortie I run a TRS-25 Bushnell red dot, and I spend the bigger cash on optics for the longer range rigs where I think it is better spent.. The TRS works AWESOME out to 75 yards for me anyway

once again, just me... :)
 
Thats a fair point. However I've got other guns for the long range stuff. And with the guys I'm shooting with a .223 won't cut it anyways. One of my local shops has a TRS-25 Highrise model on sale right now actually. I was tempted to pick it up just because it was on sale. It's not the prettiest in the world but it's cheap. It's on for $120.00 + HST.

bobbynewmark said:
If I was gonna spend 3K on an AR it would have at least an 18" barrel...

then I would buy a Norc or High Standard shortie upper to goof around with.. I mean they are only so much fun past 40-50 yards unless all you do is run and gun stuff.. IMHO

FTR I started with a 11.5" S&J barrelled upper, then got an 18" upper in addition, and just bought a 24" barrel target AR.. They are all fun, but if I was gonna spend big money I'd rather have the more valuable barrel included.. Also on my shortie I run a TRS-25 Bushnell red dot, and I spend the bigger cash on optics for the longer range rigs where I think it is better spent.. The TRS works AWESOME out to 75 yards for me anyway

once again, just me... :)
Click to expand...
 
I love AR threads! IMO they are the ###iest black rifles around.
OP, if this was my cash to spend, i would:
Get the DD of your choice. 14.5 is a nice length if you definitely won't cross the line to shoot, as PE alluded to earlier.
Top your rifle with a Eotech and the G33 magnifier. Install the Raptor charging handle and put in a Geiselle or Timney trigger. Get a good single/ two point sling. Buy some AA Beowulf mags. Load up on ammo and GO SHOOT!
If you really want an AR that is a Rolex, get a Knights Armament or HK ( piston). Christensen Arms is another high end AR name but apparently reliability can be an issue ( ask mikethebike!) These guns plus the goodies will put you over your budget though.
Get a good weapons light also, down the road. You don't actually need one but it's just fun to have it!
 
Still alive you're definitely right on the ###y part. I've heard and read the interesting stories on the Christiensen Arms products.

I remember looking through what I thought was a legit Eotech locally once and the reticle seemed pretty fuzzy and hazy. Are they actually like that? Or are they crisp and clear. I would definitely want a clear and defines reticle especially with a magnifier.
 
MadcapMagician said:
Still alive you're definitely right on the ###y part. I've heard and read the interesting stories on the Christiensen Arms products.

I remember looking through what I thought was a legit Eotech locally once and the reticle seemed pretty fuzzy and hazy. Are they actually like that? Or are they crisp and clear. I would definitely want a clear and defines reticle especially with a magnifier.
Click to expand...
Do you wear glasses? People with astigmatism have issues with all RDSs. I have Aimpoint, Trijicon and Eotechs. The Aimpoint is the worst, it actually looks like a small slash to me. The Eotech is actually quite clear on mine (512). The problem I've had with mine is in super bright sunshine, the reticle can appear quite faint even on max. The other issue is battery life. A lot shorter than Aimpoint.
If you want to blow the budget on a good tactical sight, the Elcan is hard to beat. It is quite bulky and heavy though probably not much more than an Eotech plus the magnifier.
Too bad you don't like the Aimpoint. Even though it's the worst for reticle clarity for me, I still run it the most. I can make hits with it out to 100yds quite easily with my 10.5" AR.

Oh, I forgot Noveske for another high end AR.
 
Last edited:
No I don't wear glasses fortunately. It may have been a knock off the local shop was calling and Eotech too.

So on the topic of Elcan. Elcan VS ACOG? Pros and cons? I love the look of the ACOG and I've heard they're damn near indestructible. Elcan isn't the prettiest.

Edit: yes I know the ACOG isn't a RDS
 
The EoTech reticle can appear a little fuzzy to some. It is particularly bad if you have an astigmatism.

SA described my setup to a T, though my AR was custom built by yours truly, and not an off the shelf DD. Were I shopping now I would certainly start with DD, as IMHO they are the best balance of quality for money.

I use the EoTech as I find the Donut o' Death the fastest reticle for CQB. The 65 MOA big circle gets you on target fast, and the 1MOA point is there if you need pinpoint accuracy. I far prefer this to the single dot of an Aimpoint, but YMMV. I don't buy into the 50000 battery life BS the Aimpoint supporters trumpet; I change my AAs once per year and I've never had dead batteries when I need them (and I shoot frequently). I have NO ISSUES with reticle wash out like SA, but maybe it's because my 512 is newer (though it certainly has been through a LOT more than his!!!!)

I had a Vortex VMX3T magnifier before, but sold it in favour of the EoTech G33. It was twice the money, but it is rock solid and very fast to deploy. I found the VMX3T has just the slightest play in the mount, and the button is a little slower to deploy.

Some of the CQB guys are running 1-4x scopes, especially the illuminated reticle models now out there. On 1x they function much like a RDS. They certainly perform better at 100m or more, but I don't like them as they are more picky with eye relief, and a major embuggerance for Urban CQB using props like VTAC boards and the like.

Have fun!
 
Elcan 1-4x is a GREAT sight, but muy grande dinero! The ACOGs are a little cheaper. They are very tough, and work quite well. That said, some shooters have difficulty with the Bindon Aiming Concept. I don't like having the magnification on all the time, so they're out in my books.
 
MadcapMagician said:
No I don't wear glasses fortunately. It may have been a knock off the local shop was calling and Eotech too.

So on the topic of Elcan. Elcan VS ACOG? Pros and cons? I love the look of the ACOG and I've heard they're damn near indestructible. Elcan isn't the prettiest.

They are both expensive optics. ACOG doesn't have the variable 1-4/6 mag of the Elcan. It also runs off Tritium which will go faint over a few years (15?) if that matters! I have never figured out the bullet drop compensator on them. The visuals are just a bit too fussy for me. Look at PE's post regarding optics. You need to know what and why you use any optic for. If you plan on shooting CQB and TAC matches, the bigger your glass, the more of a pain it is to move around. If you are shooting for groups and static, then put a S&B, Zeiss or NF or whatever catches your fancy on it.
Click to expand...
 
ACOGs are nice and I've owned a few but find that the Elcan DRs are a step above. They're super clear and the etched reticles with battery illumination are better than tritium/fiber optic in my opinion.
 
TK-Hryciuk said:
ACOGs are nice and I've owned a few but find that the Elcan DRs are a step above. They're super clear and the etched reticles with battery illumination are better than tritium/fiber optic in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree, I own both as well, elcan dr is superior glass with a superior reticle, BUT the dr has a 1.5 moa black center dot, the acog crosshair does not, so you can get groups better than 1.5 moa on an acog but on the DR you're limited to 1.5 moa.
 
Sounds like you want a DD with an EoTech. Nothing wrong with that, so buy one. Comparing an EoTech (a CQB sight) to a magnified optic is pointless, they're totally different animals, the Eo will allow you to shoot what you can see with the naked eye, assuming you can hold over. A magnified optic like the OS3, or Acog will allow you to shoot objects further away, or provide somewhat better accuracy at the same distances as the Eo. A 4 power optic is less than ideal for CQB work. They're also less than ideal for range accuracy work - low magnification plus heavy reticles make for tough sledding. That's why the CF supplies 2 totally different sights for their rifles. Shooting at distance may be a little challenging with Norinco ammunition, as I've heard some pretty interesting stories (and seen targets) shot at 20m with the bullet going through the target sideways. As an option to the DD Arms East has some BCM rifles - very good quality.
 
Yeah that may be the way I go. I don't plan on doing long range work so an Eotech is relatively affordable and it will give me some money left over for ammo and accessories.

I just have to make sure DD is the way to go. Is there other brands in the same price range with the same quality? What is BCM? I'll have to check out Arms East.


enefgee said:
Sounds like you want a DD with an EoTech. Nothing wrong with that, so buy one. Comparing an EoTech (a CQB sight) to a magnified optic is pointless, they're totally different animals, the Eo will allow you to shoot what you can see with the naked eye, assuming you can hold over. A magnified optic like the OS3, or Acog will allow you to shoot objects further away, or provide somewhat better accuracy at the same distances as the Eo. A 4 power optic is less than ideal for CQB work. They're also less than ideal for range accuracy work - low magnification plus heavy reticles make for tough sledding. That's why the CF supplies 2 totally different sights for their rifles. Shooting at distance may be a little challenging with Norinco ammunition, as I've heard some pretty interesting stories (and seen targets) shot at 20m with the bullet going through the target sideways. As an option to the DD Arms East has some BCM rifles - very good quality.
Click to expand...
 
MadcapMagician said:
Yeah that may be the way I go. I don't plan on doing long range work so an Eotech is relatively affordable and it will give me some money left over for ammo and accessories.

I just have to make sure DD is the way to go. Is there other brands in the same price range with the same quality? What is BCM? I'll have to check out Arms East.
Click to expand...

if you want longer ranges later just couple it with a g33, thats what i did with my cc, xps with g33
 
Last edited:
In that budget, I'm partial to the LMT mrp rifles myself. I happen to use the same stock and pistol grip on a lot of my AR rifles so it's not something I need to change. You can also change out the barrel yourself in a few minutes.

Which brings us to one more point. The barrels. The Colt Canada barrels are hammer forged and designed to stay accurate when used in a full auto machine gun. KAC uses CC barrels. The FN249 barrel is also known to be exceptional for the same reasons as Colt Canada. A few brands offer AR rifles with these barrels. ADCOR, FN and a few special runs come to mind. The LMT mrp uses Mike Rock barrels in both CL or SS. You can have a few barrels and just change them yourself. Short for in Canada, 16" for going to USA.

If you can find an AR with what you want almost out of the box, you will be further ahead. Once you start changing everything out the cost will likely be similar to a more expensive brand that had what you want out of the box.

Lots of choices out there. Lots of reading and bargain hunting to do. But that's part of the fun.
 
Thanks for the info Epoxy7. It looks like the DD units come with a CHF barrels. It also looks like LMT might be a bit out of my price range. Or rather the rifle would take up the entire budget. I should be able to get barrels easy enough if I ever want to swap them out to take them into the States for for different scenarios.

Epoxy7 said:
In that budget, I'm partial to the LMT mrp rifles myself. I happen to use the same stock and pistol grip on a lot of my AR rifles so it's not something I need to change. You can also change out the barrel yourself in a few minutes.

Which brings us to one more point. The barrels. The Colt Canada barrels are hammer forged and designed to stay accurate when used in a full auto machine gun. KAC uses CC barrels. The FN249 barrel is also known to be exceptional for the same reasons as Colt Canada. A few brands offer AR rifles with these barrels. ADCOR, FN and a few special runs come to mind. The LMT mrp uses Mike Rock barrels in both CL or SS. You can have a few barrels and just change them yourself. Short for in Canada, 16" for going to USA.

If you can find an AR with what you want almost out of the box, you will be further ahead. Once you start changing everything out the cost will likely be similar to a more expensive brand that had what you want out of the box.

Lots of choices out there. Lots of reading and bargain hunting to do. But that's part of the fun.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom