First Black rifle want NR !

knock-knock said:
the keymod xcr with a light profile barrel is incredibly light compared to the other piston guns including the older model xcr with heavy barrel. I couldn't believe the difference. Its also notably slimmer to hold for the support hand.
Click to expand...

XCR cou: ACR cou: Tavor


Here we go again!
 
Last edited:
cr5 said:
Sorry I'm late. Read the title and was going to skip this one since it comes up every three days.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it can shoot into space but it will get closer than a Tavor :D. The only drawback the ACR has is that it's going to cost $2500-$3000 to have a non restricted one when we should be able to just use a $2000 AR for everything we want a 223 to do. I say $2000 AR because he has a $3000 budget so he may as well get a good one and a couple thousand rounds of ammo with the change.I
Of what we are allowed to have that can be made non restricted the ACR is the worlds best rifle.
Tavor is out of his budget if you are buying new and then adding the $400 trigger needed.

Honestly, with a $3000 budget and to fill the list I would buy a used ACR that has already been converted to non restricted then keep saving for a 12-14.5 inch AR down the road for 3-gun. For those that think the ACR is muzzle heavy compare it to other piston operated rifles with a similar length barrel and not to a 12 inch DI AR. If you still think it's heavy try putting some muscle on those x-box warrior arms.

Or wait for this one
http://www.tacticalimports.ca/sg-540-p-231.html

There really is no one rifle for all situations, that's why I own 4 223's and 2 300 Blackouts. I'm going to have another NR 223 semi auto soon as well since I'm buying my AR180B back :)

As much as I bust the guys baIIs about the Tavor it is a good rifle, I just don't think it's good enough to justify the $2700 price tag. I like bullpups but for whatever reason it just doesn't do it for me. I've shot 4 of them and it's just not on the must have list.
Click to expand...

A brand new Resticted ACR+barrel conversion will cost easily $3500 after tax
Brand new tavor is roughly $3100.

Used non restricted ACR is around $3000.
Used tavors are around $2400 to $2500.
So at the end of the day, non Resticted ACR will always cost $500 more.

And there are piston guns out there that are not heavy as ACR
 
onetwentyish said:
I only ever shot 2 ARs. The second one was right after the ACR at RDSC. The big difference is I have gotten used to bullpups being so nice to shoulder that I found the ACR very front heavy. I guess i am spoiled. :p

After handling the Keymod XCR at Calgary show, I must say that a piston gun can be MUCH lighter than the ACR is.
Click to expand...

You're not spoiled, you're sheltered. You need to actually shoot a few different rifles not just go by what people on here tell you or what you feel holding it for a minute at a shop or show. I've offered to go shooting with you before so you can see what an ACR with a light profile barrel feels like. Let's make it happen this summer. Let's try to get another one of those NR black rifle in the bush shoots organized this summer.
Feeling a little muzzle heavy doesn't mean much, why would you just stand there at high ready until your arms give out? Rifle up, fire, low ready, repeat.
Just like a bow, a little weight helps to stabilize the platform. When I was buying my bow I was pretty shaky so the salesperson came over with a damper and threaded it onto the front and the added weight slowed down the movement I was having.
I agree that you can hold a bullpup at high ready longer as I found out shooting my RFB with my buddy with an XCR-M, we traded rifles a couple times that day and the RFB felt lighter to hold standing offhand but it was hard to hold on target. Both of us were hitting the 200yd gong but he was more comfortable on the XCR, I was torn between the two, the RFB was lighter but both were effective hitting the plates.
 
cr5 said:
You're not spoiled, you're sheltered. You need to actually shoot a few different rifles not just go by what people on here tell you or what you feel holding it for a minute at a shop or show. I've offered to go shooting with you before so you can see what an ACR with a light profile barrel feels like. Let's make it happen this summer. Let's try to get another one of those NR black rifle in the bush shoots organized this summer.
Feeling a little muzzle heavy doesn't mean much, why would you just stand there at high ready until your arms give out? Rifle up, fire, low ready, repeat.
Just like a bow, a little weight helps to stabilize the platform. When I was buying my bow I was pretty shaky so the salesperson came over with a damper and threaded it onto the front and the added weight slowed down the movement I was having.
I agree that you can hold a bullpup at high ready longer as I found out shooting my RFB with my buddy with an XCR-M, we traded rifles a couple times that day and the RFB felt lighter to hold standing offhand but it was hard to hold on target. Both of us were hitting the 200yd gong but he was more comfortable on the XCR, I was torn between the two, the RFB was lighter but both were effective hitting the plates.
Click to expand...

You do have many points. I will most certainly be pursuing a NR AR if rumors are true. That will be right up there with in my books. I do like the ACR for what it is, but I feel that there needs to be a Keymod version released for me to LOVE it.
 
onetwentyish said:
You do have many points. I will most certainly be pursuing a NR AR if rumors are true. That will be right up there with in my books. I do like the ACR for what it is, but I feel that there needs to be a Keymod version released for me to LOVE it.
Click to expand...

I'm a recent ACR convert myself, I'm starting to like it more than my Swiss Arms rifles (but that may be because they're safe queens now :mad:). Definitely give it a shot, because it's a great platform. I've also found that it returns to zero very well after removing the barrel. I found less than 1MOA POI shift.
 
Turkinator said:
Mini-14 fits the bill, the new ones are both Reliable and Accurate
Click to expand...

Sold off a couple of the old Ruger mini series (mini 14 and mini 30) over the years.
They wouldn't hold a 4" group of 3 shots at 100 yards with any ammo I tried in them.
They were just noise making scatter-guns.
I'd want to see one of the new ones doing a lot better than that at the range before I'd invest in a new one.
The price has definitely gone up but has the accuracy followed suit?
 
Gunoholic said:
Sold off a couple of the old Ruger mini series (mini 14 and mini 30) over the years.
They wouldn't hold a 4" group of 3 shots at 100 yards with any ammo I tried in them.
They were just noise making scatter-guns.
I'd want to see one of the new ones doing a lot better than that at the range before I'd invest in a new one.
The price has definitely gone up but has the accuracy followed suit?
Click to expand...
The old ones required a fair amount of money to close those groups up because of the barrels, everything I've read about the new ones says that the new minis are on par or better than AR's in their price range. I can't speak from experience yet, mine is still in transit. They're not going to compete with a 2000$ AR but everyone I've talked to says they're awesome little coyote slayers for the money.
 
Stove pipe said:
Sorry! Did not read Non Restricted......My bad
Click to expand...

Everybody to their own but I'm not paying big bucks for a gun to put holes in a piece of paper at "a CFO approved range".
If it can't go hunting it's staying at the gun store.
With the RCMP running amuck and the CPC letting it happen any AR including the Ruger minis could be restricted or prohibited tomorrow morning when I get out of bed.
I own a Win 100 and a Belgium BAR but buy mostly lever and bolt actions now.
 
andrew3081 said:
A brand new Resticted ACR+barrel conversion will cost easily $3500 after tax
Brand new tavor is roughly $3100.

Used non restricted ACR is around $3000.
Used tavors are around $2400 to $2500.
So at the end of the day, non Resticted ACR will always cost $500 more.

And there are piston guns out there that are not heavy as ACR
Click to expand...

I don't know where you are shopping but I can walk into a store in Edmonton and buy a brand new ACR for $2500 with folding stock and regular forend. That works out to $2625 with tax then I can have a quality non restricted stainless barrel built for less than $500. So for $3150ish (tax on the barrel) you would have a brand new non restricted ACR.
I bought my ACR used off the EE for $2200 with a custom 12 inch barrel and a Geissele super ACR trigger and a buddy of mine picked up a couple of them for $2000 each. You need to learn to haggle and keep your eyes open for a good deal.
I don't see the point in buying a new one if you are just going to change the barrel anyway.

My ACR with non restricted barrel is 8.3 pounds, oh ya, really heavy, how could anyone ever hold a rifle that weighs as much as a hunting rifle?

What piston guns are you talking about? Name a few that have a non restricted length barrel that weigh noticeably less. Let's compare apples to apples, I don't care that my 12 inch PWS piston AR is lighter than the ACR, it makes no difference and isn't a fair comparison. The only similar ones I can think of are the new XCR-L keymod or an AR180B (good luck finding one). My ACR doesn't feel any different than my Swiss Arms did and is lighter than the old XCR-l with the heavy barrel that was good for what? 3-4moa? The ACR will out shoot any of those. There are a few guys on here doing sub moa with their ACR's with non restricted barrels. Mine is an extremely light profile and the best I've done so far is 1.5moa with handloads but even at that there aren't many non restricted options out there that will shoot better than that.

$500 more? Well buy a used restricted ACR for around $2000 and give me a call and I'll help you source a non restricted barrel cut to any contour you like or just buy a Dlask barrel for $550 installed including paperwork completed to remove it from the registry.
Non restricted black costs money here in Canada, why worry about a couple hundred dollars difference? Just buy the one you like the best.

Don't forget to factor in the price of the new Timney trigger for $400 that will fix the biggest complaint people have with the Tavor. The ACR just uses an AR trigger so not much to complain about there.
 
Last edited:
Find a slightly used Tavor for $2500.. get a Mepro m5 red dot for another $500. That will cover your needs.
 
Just re-read this through and I tend to agree, there's no 1 gun that will do all that you're looking for well. I think you might be better off looking at a good, accurate NR gun for coyotes (my vote's still an SL8) and a second, much lighter short barrel AR for competing. Sure, it takes a little more money, but you get 2 guns that way ;)
 
To add to what kb007 said. In my case I have an SL8 for it's accuracy and the fact it is NR does everything I want... except in 3 gun it would be a clumsy tank. Would work but would not be bringing any wall trinkets home due to the speed loss from weight not to mention it's length would be a problem in tight CQB type stages. For all I invested in this SL8, it is trivial to drop another $530 for a new Norc M4. And trust me my friend you certainly do not need a $4000 decked out AR15 to do well in IPSC 3 gun. I had 3 Colts, 1 Bushmaster, 1 Armalite, and now the devil's child of the AR world.... a dirty little Norc M4. I do just fine with it. So Where you want long shots on critters out to 300m I would stay away from the bull pups and the XCR and go with an SL8, or MR1 and pick up the Norc M4 for 3 gun, or get a NR ACR. A NR ACR might be light and small enough for 3 gun.

Moe
 
Well ... I can't add much to this thread....
The only gun listed that I own is a mini 14, I have a 185 series and I like it.
I wanted a "cool" NR and I ended up going with an XCR-L. I just got it Tuesday and shot it for the first time today.
Gotta say I was pretty worried after reading all the bad on the net about the XCR....

New rifle, on gas setting 4 I ran 100 rds or American Eagle thru it as per the manual, then a 100 rds of norinco.
Switched to setting 2 and ran another 50 rds of norinco thru it.
Not a single issue, I love this gun. It works great so far.
I have a key mod with heavy barrel.



This could be an expensive gun for me because it is a lot of fun to shoot. It seems to burn thru the ammo quick :)



Just wanted to chime in and say that I am happy with my XCR-L (after one day :))

Wolverine Supplies is absolutely great to deal with as well.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom