First case of incipient head separation UPDATE: 2nd case found

Onagoth

Onagoth

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So, I must admit, I am a little more lax reloading pistol ammo than I was loading rifle. However, I will never skip the 2-3 inspection stages I do, and this little bugger reminded me why.

Its the first case of incipient head separation I have seen, in fact, a shard of brass nicked my finger when handling it, so I think its right about to fail.

The casing actually looks fairly decent after being tumbled, a subtle reminder to make that extra up close visual look before proceeding. FYI, I'm not sure it matters, but its an "L Y 94 9x19" casing.

It doesn't look like much in the photos (s**tty camera) but you can sure feel the ridge where its about to separate.

You guys come across this often?

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I haven't had a handgun case come apart on me yet, but here's some pics of a few 300 win mags that were in various stages of failing due to head separation. I set them up from left to right, left obviously being the best, right down to outright failure. Look closely and you'll see the light coloured line just above the head getting worse until there's finally a break in the case.



Shells007.jpg

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Too bad to see those nice magnum cases being ruined because of too much headspace in the rifle. A head seperation has the potential for being an unpleasant event.
If the rifle has no front sight, I think it is fairly easy for a gunsmith to set the barrel in a bit further and correct the cause of the trouble.
 
They've all been fired in my Stevens 200 Bruce. It doesn't have a front sight, but I don't have a barrel wrench to fit the lock nut. If you think I'll get more reloads out of them, I'll run it over to Al Simmons in Hamilton and have them crank it in a bit. I'm getting anywhere from 10 to 13 reloads from each case. I've got one (and only one) Winchester case that's been through the gun 18 times so far, and it just won't die !!!!! I'm sure the neck is going to split soon. No annealing either. I've probably full length sized it 3 times so far and just neck sized it the rest of the times. I should note that most of it's life it's only seen very reduced cast bullet loads and I've become a master at setting up expander die to open the mouth just, and I mean j-u-s-t (squeek) enough to get the bullets in :D
 
Mine was from over-sizing. Using neck dies now...

I have some .308 cases that have fired over 20 full loads, but I'm using neck dies there too...
 
blacksmithden said:
They've all been fired in my Stevens 200 Bruce. It doesn't have a front sight, but I don't have a barrel wrench to fit the lock nut. If you think I'll get more reloads out of them, I'll run it over to Al Simmons in Hamilton and have them crank it in a bit. I'm getting anywhere from 10 to 13 reloads from each case. I've got one (and only one) Winchester case that's been through the gun 18 times so far, and it just won't die !!!!! I'm sure the neck is going to split soon. No annealing either. I've probably full length sized it 3 times so far and just neck sized it the rest of the times. I should note that most of it's life it's only seen very reduced cast bullet loads and I've become a master at setting up expander die to open the mouth just, and I mean j-u-s-t (squeek) enough to get the bullets in :D
Click to expand...

If you are neck-sizing properly, setting the barrel back will not make any difference. Neck sizing, in effect, is correcting the headspace.

Nothing wrong with 10-13 reloads when it comes to a case like the 300WM. I wouldn't compare case life of the 300 to that of a 308. The 300 is getting a bit more of a workout with each cycle.;)
 
Onagoth, could you see if you can get a better pic?

I've never seen a case head separation on a handgun case much less a semi-auto pistol case. I have seen a ridge develop in that area from the size die ironing out case bulges from hot loads.

Reason I'm sceptical is that case head separations are typically cased by case stretching, the stretching cause a thinning of the case usually just in front of the web. My experience with semi-auto pistol cases has been that they shrink with use, not stretch.

Is there a similar crack visible inside the case?

Not doubting you, I just want to investigate more.:)
 
Yes Denny, you are getting good life from your brass. I have often stated on these threads how neck sizing sets the headspace. I am well aware of that. However, they still must be full length resized from time to time. Plus, the first shot from new brass gives them a stretch.
Also, I was thinking that in a rifle with good headspace, those marks above the web just don't occur. I don't have a rifle with longish headspace and I never see the marks. Some of my 30-06 cases have probably been reloaded about twenty times. Making the above statement I have to disregard a couple of Lee Enfields, but I don't care about how they treat the brass.
So yes, it may be worth having the headspace set up.
 
joe-nwt said:
I wouldn't compare case life of the 300 to that of a 308. The 300 is getting a bit more of a workout with each cycle.;)
Click to expand...

Not really. The .308 operates at 51,000CUP and the .300WM is at 52,000CUP. If the difference there is enough to cut case life in HALF, I would suggest knocking your load down 0.5 gr...:)
 
Could you not back out your FL sizing dies a few thou... may be worth a try? You may be setting the shoulder back a bit each time the cases are loaded. More likely the issue here is as stated, a head spacing issue.
 
Onagoth said:
So, I must admit, I am a little more lax reloading pistol ammo than I was loading rifle. However, I will never skip the 2-3 inspection stages I do, and this little bugger reminded me why.

Its the first case of incipient head separation I have seen, in fact, a shard of brass nicked my finger when handling it, so I think its right about to fail.

The casing actually looks fairly decent after being tumbled, a subtle reminder to make that extra up close visual look before proceeding. FYI, I'm not sure it matters, but its an "L Y 94 9x19" casing.

It doesn't look like much in the photos (s**tty camera) but you can sure feel the ridge where its about to separate.

You guys come across this often?

100_1665.jpg

100_1666.jpg
Click to expand...

I had a .40cal case do the same thing after just one reloading. My load was a very light 2.8 gr of Titgroup under a 180 gr lead cast bullet. This, to date has been the only case I have had separate like that in pistol.

Take Care

Bob
 
After the first firing in my rifles I only neck size. Never seen a separation since. I had a 7mm Rem mag. After the second full length resize the cases were garbage. 3 firings isn't very economical!
 
This case had only been fired twice, sorry guys, I couldn't get any closer/better pictures.

I don't shoot hot loads, but all my shots are fired from a glock. I use a FCD as well. You guys wouldn't probably know better than me what caused this, but I was pretty surprised when I found it.
 
Case seperation, including insipient seperation, just at the top of the web in the case, is caused by too much headspace. Period. End of the story.
Heavy loading will not cause case seperation. The only way heavy loading will shorten case life is if the heavy loads enlarge the primer pockets.
Even in a properly adjusted rifle, the case will expand a bit on firing, and full length rezizing will push it back. That is why most of us never full length resize cases, if they are going to be shot in the same rifle. Best way is to set the die so it just touches the shoulder. This will prevent the cases from gradually growing, thus at sometime requiring full length resizing.
In reality, head space is the difference in the length of the chamber, ahead of the bolt, and the cartridges used in it. Thus, with a longer case, to match the chamber, it could be said the rifle did not have excessive head space.
The trouble with this is that the first firing of the new case will give it a stretch, and severely shorten the life of the case. It is not unheard of to have factory cartridges seperate on the first firing.
Thus, headspace should be watched, and if a "no go," gauge will "go," the rifle should be repaired.
 
H4831 said:
Case seperation, including insipient seperation, just at the top of the web in the case, is caused by too much headspace. Period. End of the story.
Heavy loading will not cause case seperation. The only way heavy loading will shorten case life is if the heavy loads enlarge the primer pockets.
Even in a properly adjusted rifle, the case will expand a bit on firing, and full length rezizing will push it back. That is why most of us never full length resize cases, if they are going to be shot in the same rifle. Best way is to set the die so it just touches the shoulder. This will prevent the cases from gradually growing, thus at sometime requiring full length resizing.
In reality, head space is the difference in the length of the chamber, ahead of the bolt, and the cartridges used in it. Thus, with a longer case, to match the chamber, it could be said the rifle did not have excessive head space.
The trouble with this is that the first firing of the new case will give it a stretch, and severely shorten the life of the case. It is not unheard of to have factory cartridges seperate on the first firing.
Thus, headspace should be watched, and if a "no go," gauge will "go," the rifle should be repaired.
Click to expand...

Well, I can understand that... but is this different because this is a pistol cartridge which headspaces off the mouth?
 
Pistol cases seperating, or threatening to, is completely new to me. I have never seen it.
However, I have had minimal experience with cases that space on their mouth. (I'm a revolver boy.)
In thinking about, what if the case was short of whatever it normally hits, I suppose it could happen.
I'm thinking another angle. Suppose the bullets were over crimped, could that cause the case to slide by the stop it normally uses?
As I say I have no experience along these lines, so sorry, don't think I can help.
 
I'll put my money on the case being defective from the factory. Perhaps the case got overstretched during the forming process. There is nothing done to a pistol case during normal reloading/firing that would cause it to stretch.

The fact that there have been 342 views of this thread and only two people including the OP have stated to have seen this speaks volumes.
 
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