So i cast up my first batch of 9mm 124 gr. Tumble lubed them with Lee Alox, then ran them through the sizer die and re-tumble lubed again. I shot 100 of these through my Shadow today and when I came home and cleaned it there seemed to be some lead in the barrel. It seemed to come out fairly easily with my regular cleaning routine. Should I be concerned about this at all, or is there something different I could do?
First cast 9mm - Question
- Thread starter misterzr
- Start date
What hardness was the lead? What velocities were you trying to achieve? What size were you sizing to?
I'm sure much more knowledgeable guys will chime in but leading usually occurs with lead too soft, undersized bullets or trying to get high velocities.
I'm sure much more knowledgeable guys will chime in but leading usually occurs with lead too soft, undersized bullets or trying to get high velocities.
Not sure of the hardness of the lead, I have no way to test, it was wheel weight lead and water dropped so should fairly hard. Haven't chrono'd my reloads but I am loading them with 4.2 gr. of Titegroup so might be a bit hot. Bullets were put through a .356 sizing die.
I am not an expert, but I would say that you are fine if it comes out with "normal" cleaning. I have shot the exact load you describe, lubed in the exact same manner and did not see any leading. I have only shot 400-500 of this load, but that should be more than sufficient to see leading. Again, I am not an expert in any way and there are much more knowledgeable people on this forum that will have a more definite answer, just sharing my experience.
Good advice. If you can find them, Chore Boy are the ones to use. When searching for them, take a magnet with you. A lot of the easy to find brands are now are copper plated steel. Not a great idea, imho although some people use steel wool instead of chore boy strands. You could also chase the lead with a jacketed round or two fired after shooting the boolits. I've personally never done it but I've only once had leading and that was cleaned out with a powder coated boolit. Same idea really.
Oh, and for sizing your boolits, try loading one up as cast unsized and see if it will chamber. If it will, just cast and lube without sizing. Lee actually says not to size tumble lubed bullets. It makes the already tiny lube grooves even smaller.
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Boolitcaster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
You can also decrease your powder until the gun fails to cycle and then up it a little.
Do small test batches. Using your pistol as a single shot can get tiring after a while.
Do small test batches. Using your pistol as a single shot can get tiring after a while.
Bronze wool also works well for cleaning lead fouling. I wrap it around an o-ring jag sold by Brownells, but a brush also works well.
I would say that you are doing well if you are shooting bullets sized .356" with Titegroup with no keyholing and only minor leading, but it wouldn't hurt to try .357" bullets, either.
I would say that you are doing well if you are shooting bullets sized .356" with Titegroup with no keyholing and only minor leading, but it wouldn't hurt to try .357" bullets, either.
Seems to me that unless your regular cleaning routine includes scouring the bore with a brush and such, it really is nothing to be concerned about. A slight lead wash that comes out with patches is not really leading. What size do they drop from the mold?
blaser.306
CGN Regular
- Location
- Saskatoon , Sask
So far it seems you have received sound advice. The only thing not mentioned are the "hardness" of your alloy,and as you said you were water dropping these . Sometimes the extra brinnel combined with an undersized "boolit" can be main contributers to leading troubles! When you say you are leading, are you getting ribbons of lead in your rifling , in the throat , or antimonial wash towards the muzzle end of the bbl. It is also possible that with the LEE " mule snot " your slugs are just running out of lube ?
1) Which mould are you using?
2) Is your mould one that forms Boolits designed to be used with a Gas Check, if so are you using a gas check?
3) Have you slugged your barrel to get the true diameter of it?
If you are getting leading in the barrel, there can be a number of causes, all of which are simple to fix. It may be easy to clean out now but over time it will not be so easy to get out. If you haven't slugged your barrel i suggest you do so. Manufacturing specs are usually pretty spot on but some times can vary just enough that the boolit you're casting is too small. Because you're casting lead boolits, the general rule is to cast .002 larger than the diameter of the barrel. If the boolit is too small, leading will occur which is why you should up-cast and push through a bullet sizer a maximum of .002 larger than barrel diameter. Because lead is soft it will compress when fired creating the optimal fit and pressure, in turn preventing leading. Use a micrometer to confirm the proper cast. Never cast and use without verifying the first 20 or 30 boolits. Once comfortable with the mould I verify two or three out of every 10.
If you're not using gas checks on a boolit that came from a mould designed to be gas checked, gas will pass between the boolit and the barrel and / or melt the base of the boolit ever so slightly - but enough to cause leading. It may not be noticeable after a dozen rounds or so but put 30 or more through it and you will start to see buildup.
I cast hundreds of boolits and have zero leading issues in my .303 British Enfield. The barrel is .311 (or so it should be), was slugged at .3125, and I cast at .314 and and size for .314 with a gas check. No leading issues. Castboolits is a great source for people who cast. Lots of info - the site is dedicated to casting boolits after all.
Sawzall mentioned Lee recommends not re sizing tumble lubed boolits. I find the difference is between sized and non sized is irrelevant if the boolits have the proper amount of lube thrown in when tumbled after being sized. Lube the boolit before sizing. Put it through the sizer and gas check if required, then re lube. If its done properly with an even coating, then you shouldn't find any issues at all.
2) Is your mould one that forms Boolits designed to be used with a Gas Check, if so are you using a gas check?
3) Have you slugged your barrel to get the true diameter of it?
If you are getting leading in the barrel, there can be a number of causes, all of which are simple to fix. It may be easy to clean out now but over time it will not be so easy to get out. If you haven't slugged your barrel i suggest you do so. Manufacturing specs are usually pretty spot on but some times can vary just enough that the boolit you're casting is too small. Because you're casting lead boolits, the general rule is to cast .002 larger than the diameter of the barrel. If the boolit is too small, leading will occur which is why you should up-cast and push through a bullet sizer a maximum of .002 larger than barrel diameter. Because lead is soft it will compress when fired creating the optimal fit and pressure, in turn preventing leading. Use a micrometer to confirm the proper cast. Never cast and use without verifying the first 20 or 30 boolits. Once comfortable with the mould I verify two or three out of every 10.
If you're not using gas checks on a boolit that came from a mould designed to be gas checked, gas will pass between the boolit and the barrel and / or melt the base of the boolit ever so slightly - but enough to cause leading. It may not be noticeable after a dozen rounds or so but put 30 or more through it and you will start to see buildup.
I cast hundreds of boolits and have zero leading issues in my .303 British Enfield. The barrel is .311 (or so it should be), was slugged at .3125, and I cast at .314 and and size for .314 with a gas check. No leading issues. Castboolits is a great source for people who cast. Lots of info - the site is dedicated to casting boolits after all.
Sawzall mentioned Lee recommends not re sizing tumble lubed boolits. I find the difference is between sized and non sized is irrelevant if the boolits have the proper amount of lube thrown in when tumbled after being sized. Lube the boolit before sizing. Put it through the sizer and gas check if required, then re lube. If its done properly with an even coating, then you shouldn't find any issues at all.
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Boolitcaster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
blaser.306
CGN Regular
- Location
- Saskatoon , Sask
As a matter of fact I have a 124 gr truncated cone gas check mould on it's way here from NOE as I am typing this! 5 cavity and cut to drop @ .358" so sizing to .357-.356" will be a walk in the park!
I've shot those tumble lube 124rn pills in my SAM and I have to say they are the worst I've ever seen for leading for any bullet in any gun. Accuracy is average, but after 150 rounds I'm literally mining lead from the barrel it is so badly fouled. I have a love hate relationship with the Lewis lead remover now.
The commercial cast bullets I had used previously left virtually no leading, and that was also with titegroup.
Now that I also own a Glock I'm switching to cam pro, since its near the same price as commercial cast.
I'm just going to cast for rifle from now on. I don't think that casting pistol bullets represents value for time invested any longer. Not for myself anyway. I only tried the tumble lube stuff because lee claims no sizing needed, which is time saved
The commercial cast bullets I had used previously left virtually no leading, and that was also with titegroup.
Now that I also own a Glock I'm switching to cam pro, since its near the same price as commercial cast.
I'm just going to cast for rifle from now on. I don't think that casting pistol bullets represents value for time invested any longer. Not for myself anyway. I only tried the tumble lube stuff because lee claims no sizing needed, which is time saved
