First Cleaning Of New Rimfire

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neos

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Hi there. So I picked up my new Savage Mark 2 the other day and got around to doing its first cleaning today. I started with a jag and patch with nitro solvent. Came out literally black! So I ran the bronze brush through 3 times back and forth followed by 18 more patches on the jag with nitro solvent, working it back and forth. I started with Outers 22 caliber patches, and ended up trying cotton patches. At the end of all this, the patches were still coming out a grey color. I am just wondering if I was doing something wrong, or should I just keep going? At the end of all this, I ran a patch with gun oil on it. Any advice, or should I leave it as is, and just shoot the damn thing? Thank you.
 
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neos said:
Hi there. So I picked up my new Savage Mark 2 the other day and got around to doing its first cleaning today. I started with a jag and patch with nitro solvent. Came out literally black! So I ran the bronze brush through 3 times back and forth followed by 18 more patches on the jag with nitro solvent, working it back and forth. I started with Outers 22 caliber patches, and ended up trying cotton patches. At the end of all this, the patches were still coming out a grey color. I am just wondering if I was doing something wrong, or should I just keep going? At the end of all this, I ran a patch with gun oil on it. Any advice, or should I leave it as is, and just shoot the damn thing? Thank you.
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Wow! I must say that was really a very energetic cleaning! Honestly, a bit too much for my taste for a humble .22cal rifle. The .22cal rifling is pretty shallow and delicate and I'd avoid bronze brush through the bore. I never use it. Perhaps plastic but not bronze. Steel that is used for manufacturing .22cal barrels may not be the same quality (softer) than steel used for higher caliber barrels. Neither I use nitro solvent. I only use Ballistol for cleaning with cotton patches. Just a few patches that's all. When the last patch is lightly grey that's it. The .22cal ammo is after all non-corrosive.
 
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I would shoot it. Most rifles when new have a preservative applied to the bore. I usually clean this with solvent followed by two or three dry patches & then shoot it. I don't understand why a new gun would have black patches but since you are now getting a grey colour it would appear that you have got most of the offending gunk out of the bore.

I think you will find that your new rifle will clean up nicely once you have put a number of rounds down the bore. I would go easy on the cleaning most .22 rim fires seem to shoot fine even with a fair amount of crud in the barrel.
 
Chances are, there were several rounds fired through the gun at the factory. I know my Anschutz rifles all came with a test target, so yeah the barrel will be dirty.
 
Wow that sounds like a brutally dirty barrel for a new gun. Oh well, its safe to shoot.

Good on you for actually cleaning it and not just shooting it then complaining about accuracy and reliability.
 
Great. Thank you for the replies. I do not normally use the bronze brush either, just that it was new and I wanted to make sure there was nothing stuck to the barrel anywhere. I have a nylon one, just that somehow I had misplaced the rod that has the correct thread size for that set of brushes and accessories. Ok, so off to shooting we will go.
 
Every new rifle I've ever bought had black patches coming out after some hoppes, and patches. Nothing out of the ordinary there.

Brushes can be a funny thing, I can take any rifle that's just been cleaned and run some solvent with a brush through the bore and it will always follow up with dirty patches. Doesn't matter if the rifle is brand new, any patch following a brush will come out dirty.
 
Don't forget that some of the harsher solvents will come out grey looking because they can actually bring a microscopic layer of the metal in the barrel with it. I'd say its clean, go shoot it and report back. :)
 
AAAAAAAAAARRGGH... no BACK AND FORTH!!!!

Push the cleaning apparatus from breech to muzzle, then remove apparatus, withdraw the rod, reattach apparatus and push thru again.

Don't pull it backwards thru the bore... Please...
 
What he said ^^

And the Savage's come with thick packaging grease that must be removed from the bolt. I always fully disassemble the bolts or drop them in an ultrastonic tank. The Savage's are known to have problems when that grease doesn't get removed. Eventually it becomes hardened and needs to be polished off..
 
mastermind said:
What he said ^^

And the Savage's come with thick packaging grease that must be removed from the bolt. I always fully disassemble the bolts or drop them in an ultrastonic tank. The Savage's are known to have problems when that grease doesn't get removed. Eventually it becomes hardened and needs to be polished off..
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And the inside of the barrels (.22's) have a film of stickum on it too. Minor annoyance to remove it. A little varsol soak, and good to go.
 
Got Juice? said:
AAAAAAAAAARRGGH... no BACK AND FORTH!!!!

Push the cleaning apparatus from breech to muzzle, then remove apparatus, withdraw the rod, reattach apparatus and push thru again.

Don't pull it backwards thru the bore... Please...
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What about if you use a plastic brush, and fully push it out before pulling it back in?
 
Time saver I suppose!

I only use patchworms (plastic pull through for patches) for my 22s, and I use those + dewey rod with plastic brush for my 223; it just takes a while to unscrew the brush after every stroke.
 
People sure can be funny about their cleaning regimes :rolleyes:

A whole lot of opinion floats around, not much of it can be backed up by scientific fact.

Steel that is used for manufacturing .22cal barrels may not be the same quality (softer) than steel used for higher caliber barrels

Please cite your source for this information. You're telling me Lilja does not use 416 Stainless for their .22 LR barrels? All manufacturers order special lots of softer steel blanks just for rimfire barrel production? They purposely complicate their fabrication process by having to adjust for different machining properties of the material for a single caliber? What source indicates that bronze brushes are harmful to any grade of commonly used barrel steel?

Push the cleaning apparatus from breech to muzzle, then remove apparatus, withdraw the rod, reattach apparatus and push thru again.

Don't pull it backwards thru the bore... Please...

So, you'd prefer to drag the unsupported end of the rod over the lower portion of the crown and rifling all the way back out the breech? Don't drag contaminants back through the bore, you say? So, do you clean and degrease the brush after every pass? If not, your logic is circular as the brush gets significantly loaded with fouling as it is used. How does it matter if you remove it, just to push that dirty brush through the barrel again from the breech? Clean the brush after every pass, and run a dry patch through the barrel before running the brush through again if you wish to achieve what you think you are with your current methodology. Too tedious? I know, and completely unnecessary.

All one needs to know about fouling, how it develops, and how to remove it from a rimfire is covered here: http://www.rrdvegas.com/rimfire-cleaning.html

Pay special attention to the section about removing the brush for the backstroke ;)
 
So, you link to an Eley article and give no summary of it's contents and how they relate to, or support your cleaning methods. I've copied what I assume you are using to support your position out of the article:

The barrel should be cleaned with a bronze brush. In order to do this you will need to push the brush in the direction of the muzzle and repeat three times. A bronze brush is used as it is the only tool that can be used to completely remove lead remnants.

Wow, only three times? Now your rifle is operating room clean and you may go about your merry business?

The cleaning there only applies to high quality, match grade hand lapped or otherwise finished barrels (Anschütz, etc..). I can tell you from personal experience with a Lilja barrel and Anschütz barrels, as a borescope owner, that brushing these barrels is seldom necessary. Usually, they clean right up with regular patches and solvent. The carbon ring in the chamber may take some more work, depending on how badly you've let it develop. I'm finding a .270 cal nylon brush short stroked in the chamber is doing a very good job of cleaning out moderate carbon rings. Severe cases require JB bore paste. They do not mention removing the brush for the back stroke, but it is implied. No statement to support any reasoning for removing the brush. Not a good source.

There is no cleaning regime of "X" quantity patches with, and without solvent plus brushing with either brush material for "X" quantity strokes that will guarantee you a clean barrel every time.

Every barrel is different in it's needs, and each shooting session usually is not the same. What type of ammo did you shoot, how many rounds? etc. Do you stay on top of preventing carbon ring development, or has this been building for years? These patchworm and light cleaning regimes suggested will certainly come back and bite your accuracy down the road. Hoppes #9, a bronze brush and patches are not 100% effective, especially for the carbon ring. Once I got my borescope and checked out my 16 year old Remington 597 that was cleaned this way for it's lifetime, I saw how badly fouling had built up and gave it a deep cleaning with JB bore paste. Previously, it was a 1" plus shooter at 50 yards, cleaning brought it back under 1" (0.6"-0.8" typical) and even tosses me some sub 1/2" groups. I know of no rifle that shoots it's best heavily fouled.

The only way to determine the effectiveness of your cleaning is borescope inspection. If you find over the years accuracy isn't what it used to be, this suggests it may be time for a deep cleaning with JB bore paste. Above all else, keep the chamber/throat area as clean as possible, maintain regularly after each session. Production grade barrels require much more aggressive cleaning than highly finished target barrels. If we're competing against each other, disregard everything I'm saying ;)
 
RabidM4U5 said:
So, you link to an Eley article and give no summary of it's contents and how they relate to, or support your cleaning methods. I've copied what I assume you are using to support your position out of the article:

The barrel should be cleaned with a bronze brush. In order to do this you will need to push the brush in the direction of the muzzle and repeat three times. A bronze brush is used as it is the only tool that can be used to completely remove lead remnants.

Wow, only three times? Now your rifle is operating room clean and you may go about your merry business?

The cleaning there only applies to high quality, match grade hand lapped or otherwise finished barrels (Anschütz, etc..). I can tell you from personal experience with a Lilja barrel and Anschütz barrels, as a borescope owner, that brushing these barrels is seldom necessary. Usually, they clean right up with regular patches and solvent. The carbon ring in the chamber may take some more work, depending on how badly you've let it develop. I'm finding a .270 cal nylon brush short stroked in the chamber is doing a very good job of cleaning out moderate carbon rings. Severe cases require JB bore paste. They do not mention removing the brush for the back stroke, but it is implied. No statement to support any reasoning for removing the brush. Not a good source.

There is no cleaning regime of "X" quantity patches with, and without solvent plus brushing with either brush material for "X" quantity strokes that will guarantee you a clean barrel every time.

Every barrel is different in it's needs, and each shooting session usually is not the same. What type of ammo did you shoot, how many rounds? etc. Do you stay on top of preventing carbon ring development, or has this been building for years? These patchworm and light cleaning regimes suggested will certainly come back and bite your accuracy down the road. Hoppes #9, a bronze brush and patches are not 100% effective, especially for the carbon ring. Once I got my borescope and checked out my 16 year old Remington 597 that was cleaned this way for it's lifetime, I saw how badly fouling had built up and gave it a deep cleaning with JB bore paste. Previously, it was a 1" plus shooter at 50 yards, cleaning brought it back under 1" (0.6"-0.8" typical) and even tosses me some sub 1/2" groups. I know of no rifle that shoots it's best heavily fouled.

The only way to determine the effectiveness of your cleaning is borescope inspection. If you find over the years accuracy isn't what it used to be, this suggests it may be time for a deep cleaning with JB bore paste. Above all else, keep the chamber/throat area as clean as possible, maintain regularly after each session. Production grade barrels require much more aggressive cleaning than highly finished target barrels. If we're competing against each other, disregard everything I'm saying ;)
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It's a guide bud. Rimfire cleaning depends on internal finish of the barrel, and how quickly it fouls. The rougher the finish, the faster the fouling, and faster accuracy can decay.

Next, cleaning is ammunition dependant. Some ammo is dirty because of the powder in it, some bad because of the lube used, and some ammo, a combination of both.

You need to know your gun, and the ammo it likes. That is the first thing. Depending on the ammo and qty shot will determine the frequency of cleaning required.

These cleaning guides are just that. They are guides :) Not everyone has access to a scope (mine is old school until I save up the 400 usd for the one i want) My own personal guns go through different cleaning regimens. Atmospheric humidity and heat also play a role in the fouling.

Take a breath and relax :)
 
RabidM4U5 said:
People sure can be funny about their cleaning regimes :rolleyes:

A whole lot of opinion floats around, not much of it can be backed up by scientific fact.

Steel that is used for manufacturing .22cal barrels may not be the same quality (softer) than steel used for higher caliber barrels

Please cite your source for this information. You're telling me Lilja does not use 416 Stainless for their .22 LR barrels? All manufacturers order special lots of softer steel blanks just for rimfire barrel production? They purposely complicate their fabrication process by having to adjust for different machining properties of the material for a single caliber? What source indicates that bronze brushes are harmful to any grade of commonly used barrel steel?
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I was not talking about stainless steel. 416 martensitic stainless steel is good, heat treatable steel. No problem with this steel. However, 416 is premium steel for rimfire .22cal barrels. I have a Ruger 10/22 semi and a Ruger 77/22 bolt action with stainless steel barrels but I paid hefty prices for them. Regular .22cal barrels (Ruger, Remington, Mossberg etc) use free-machining 1117 steel for their cheap barrels. This steel is plain carbon steel with increased content of sulfur to improve machining. This is what I was talking about. It's relatively soft. Anyway, like I said before I just use patches soaked in Ballistol for the bore, no brushes or any abrasive stuff regardless of stainless or plain carbon barrel. IMHO for a .22cal barrel that's all I need.
 
Got Juice? said:
Take a breath and relax :)
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Hey now, you pressed the panic button about pulling a brush back through the barrel! I would say removing the brush has the potential to cause more damage than leaving it on.

05RAV said:
Regular .22cal barrels (Ruger, Remington, Mossberg etc) use free-machining 1117 steel for their cheap barrels. I just use patches soaked in Ballistol for the bore, no brushes or any abrasive stuff regardless of stainless or plain carbon barrel. IMHO for a .22cal barrel that's all I need.
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Ok, I would still like to see where you're getting that information. My research into it indicates 4140 chrome molybdenum steel is most commonly used in hunting and military firearms. http://www.firearmsid.com/feature articles/rifledbarrelmanuf/barrelmanufacture.htm

All I can find about 1117 steel is that Quackenbush uses it for their airgun barrels. It is interesting to note, they make big bore airguns like .458 and .58 cal. http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/steel_for_airguns.htm

I do not see how it would make financial sense for a large company such as Remington, Savage or Ruger, etc.. to order a separate lot of steel specifically for .22 LR production only. It would make much more sense to only order 4140 and use that for all blued steel rifle barrels.

Perhaps your cleaning regime is satisfactory for the shooting you do. I suppose you are not much of a target shooter. Would you feel ok leaving the pictured lead deposit in your chamber? Do note, this pic was taken after an overnight soak in solvent and two scrubbing sessions with a bronze brush. Lead and carbon rings in the chamber are tough $#17! An abrasive was required for removal. I've only seen this occur once, when I shot some Thunderbolts for giggles. Lubed match ammo has never done this to me.

 
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