First Milsurp Guidance?

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DLaw3000

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Hi CGN , I come to you for your thoughts and guidance. I am a new PAL holder and am wondering what you would advise me for getting my first milsurp rifle. I do not have much shooting experience (various pistols, muzzleloaders, SKS, black powder, and Lee Enfield) and will be getting a 10/22 to improve shooting skills.

I have about a $1000-1500 budget to grab something cool and ideally in decent condition. I'd like to be able to shoot it periodically but my range days will be quite limited for the foreseeable future. I don't really care about the PRICE of ammo but I do want there to be ammo available. So there's also an aspect of me wanting to get something while I still can as prices seem to be going up. I'm sticking with manual action / not semi-auto until more clarity on C21.

Options I've been considering are:

1. K31
2. Lee Enfield Mk 4 No 1 or possibly other comparable Lee Enfield
3. Zastava M48
4. Carcano (some really cheap ones available atm)
5. Mosin?
6. Some other mauser?

I won't be putting thousands of rounds down range with this. It will be for shooting occasionally, starting a small collection, and the sheer fun of it. Not needed for hunting at all.

Lemme know your thoughts. No wrong answers and I'd love people's opinions.
 
From your list of options, go with a Mosin. Very easy to find one in excellent condition, ammo is still readily available, and within your stated budget.
 
Personally I prefer the Lee Enfield. The Enfield has better sights. Enfield is my favorite bolt action milsurp.

The Mosin is decent, find a Finnish one if you can. They have better triggers than Russian ones. Interesting history behind them as well.

K31 is a decent rifle but I find it short in the stock for me. K31 doesn't have the wartime use behind it so I don't rank it as high. They are accurate rifles with good trigger, at least the one I have is.

I never really enjoyed the Mauser actions or sights. Especially K98 sights, I just could never hold well with them. Israel K98 is a option, use 308 ammo which is everywhere.

Too bad it's hard to walk into a, shop and handle rifles again to see what fits you best. I miss those days, only caught the tail end of it when stores had them on shelves.
 
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1. K31 These are nice rifles, but the price is creeping up there ($800 ish typically). They usually tend to be in great shape. Surplus ammo is next to non-existent on the retail side now, but can still be found on the used/re-sale market but expect $1.50-$2.00 a round it seems. You could stay on this same lineage of firearms and look at the 96/11 series of rifles. The full length versions can still be found for sub $500, or you can get the K11 (Carbine version of 96/11) if you wanted something a little shorter

2. Lee Enfield Mk 4 No 1 or possibly other comparable Lee Enfield This can be a rabbit hole. If you aren't looking for collecting, or anything in particular, you can find an "all wood" non-sporterized rifle for around $1000 now-a-days. You could also buy a sporterized version and spend the cold months of the winter trying to source parts to restore it as well. Ammunition used to be EVERYWHERE, but it seems now it has been effected by the same shortage as everything else and when you do find it at your local gun store (or CanTire/Home Hardware/etc) expect to pay $2.50 a round and up

3. Zastava M48 These seem to be a great deal currently. Since they lack some of the "provenance" of the other rifles you mentioned, it isn't hard to find a gorgeous rifle for $800 or so. 8mm Mauser is a stout round, and there are still a handful of commercial manufacturers. It isn't the most popular round, so don't expect to always find it on the shelf.

4. Carcano (some really cheap ones available atm) Currently, these are sub-$400 dollars. They have a poor reputation which is only partially earned. The current batch is a little rough from the ones I've seen (and two I own). Only one manufacturer (PPU) is manufacturing ammo, or at least, that's all I've seen in my travels. The bore is .268 and most projectiles are .264, so slightly undersized which can affect accuracy. Also, the sights on some versions are zero'd for 300m, so expect to aim low or modify the front sight

5. Mosin? These were sub-$150 guns for the longest time, but seem to be around the $500 mark now. Surplus ammo isn't as available as it once was, but can still be found. Condition varies greatly, especially on the used market when people who bought it for $89 didn't ever clean it or care for it after shooting corrosive ammo. I'll steal a line from a buddy when I describe the Mosin as "the most adequate gun of all time". For the basic models, don't expect the world, but expect that it will continue to function for another hundred years. Carbine and Finnish models (among others) tend to be more expensive but typically have better fit and finish as well

6. Some other mauser? There is a HUGE world of Mauser's. And just like the M48, many are under appreciated (I'm looking at you Turkish Mausers). There is a whole group of people who look to collect one from every country/manufacturer/year etc. Expect to pay between $300 and $99,999 and have condition range from "crap" to "factory fresh" since this is such a broad category. See note above about 8mm mauser ammunition



This is just my opinions. It also depends on what appeals to you. Watch some YouTube, read some books, figure out what interests you. Do you want something "like your grandpa carried" or something that has some obscure little known history? Or, do you want something that goes bang? You want something you can shoot steel with at 500 yards, or are you looking to occasionally hit the broad side of a barn? Best of luck on your surplus adventures, and once you start down this path, prepare to never be able to stop :p
 
Of the ones on your list, probably the Mosin as already mentioned - due to availability of good, still decently priced examples, and lower cost of available ammunition.
There is a plethora of options too if you look at both the Russian and Finish models.
Ammo can still be had for the K31s, although prices are driving up due to the discontinued release of surplus ammo.

I would recommend looking toward possible hand loading or securing a decent source of factory ammo such as Privi into the equation for anything out there that has somewhat difficult or expensive ammunition to feed it with - 303 British, Mausers (7mm, 8mm 6.5x55), 7.5x55, and the carcano.

I think the Swedish M38s and Swiss K31s are the best shooting of the bunch
 
How about a .22 trainer? Enfield No. 2 Mk IV, MAS 45, Belgian/Israeli Mauser etc.

You get all the look and feel of Milsurp without the recoil. Ammo cheap and available everywhere. Single shot 22 least likely to be ever grabbed back by law. Lots of variety, interesting markings, history etc
 
+1 for MOSIN. I would also suggest an SVT 40. Now with the latest events, you can puck up a very nice example for around 1k.
 
In my opinion, buy a carcano carbine now because it's cheat and will get you started. Ammo is around $32 a box, cheap compared to many calibers. If you like the experience, other guns can be bought as you find good deals. An 8mm Mauser like an M48 is a genuinely good idea too.

Mosins are often too long to be handy. If you can find a carbine, maybe go for that.
 
Depends on your interests. Personally I am at the point where I prefer a variety of actions with a soft spot for a few specific firearm/regions (WWI Balkans and Swiss firearms).

The questions you need to ask yourself is what am I wanting to collect? Is it a specific war, specific country, action type, unique features, interesting history, something to shoot and get a experience, etc. This is a difficult question which can take years to answer, I had to go through about 70 different milsurps to get to the point I am at. But you can always redefine what you want later.

For starting, I would recommend 4 different options.

1) Isreali Mauser in 7.62 Nato. Relatively common, relatively inexpensive (within your price range listed), lots of history (many different manufacturers from German WWII to Romanian WWII to FN post WWII), common caliber, and it can be a great branch into all sorts of different collections, if not just something entertaining to shoot. I would buy one of these or a Swedish Mauser over a M48 any day.
2) Mosin Nagant, preferably either a M38 carbine or Finnish variant. The M91/30s I feel people are asking too much for today.
3) Carcano Cavalry Carbine, you can add one of these for about 300$. Likely won’t be able to shoot it lots and the accuracy might not be the best due to the ammo available but it is still fairly cheap with lots of history.
4) Lee Enfield/P14. Excellent rifles, good caliber, .303 is always available. Tons of history depending on which variant you decide.
5) Swiss K31 or M1911 variant. Love my swiss guns, they are all accurate, ingeniously thought out, and relatively inexpensive especially in comparison to their quality. Ammo maybe a bit difficult not, but not more so than 8mm Mauser or 6.5 Carcano
 
OP - whatever you decide become a specialist. It is way too easy to buy one of everything going by. Learn enough to make a goal - all rifles from X country, campaign, action type, model, cartridge, captures, Canadian issue, etc. There are always possible collecting overlaps, but you can get an idea.

I buy things and I buy enough ammunition to shoot and enjoy them. The Italians haven't made Carcano ammunition since before Mussolini was lynched, so I stay away from that line. Israeli Mausers is an interesting avenue, because there are so many original rifles converted to one cartridge that is easy to fee. I find Moisins are clunky, jam easily, and not really a good design. SVT40s are common and have lots of variations by year and by maker, and a subsection are Finnish captures. Along that route, there are Russian capture German Mausers, Israeli capture Egyptian 8mm Hakims and Ljungmanns. You could choose all tilting bolt semi-autos so SVT, SKS, FN 49, French MAS family, etc. Lee Enfields are very common and there is a lot of information on their. As for Arisakas I met a fellow who goes after each model from each maker and each year, and when he though that wasn't enough fun, he collected high and low serial numbers within each category. As you see the options are endless!
 
Swedish mauser in 6.5x55, at least the round won't punish you with recoil.

K-31, super high quality, even the original ammo made for it is super high quality. Finding some at a good price is going to be difficult.
 
From your list:

1. K31 - not really my thing, but if you want one, get one.
2. Lee Enfield - get an "Irish #4" they tend to be in the best condition.
3. Zastava M48 - I'd skip this unless you have a specific interest in Yugoslavia, there are much nicer rifles out there. See #6.
4. Carcano - maybe get one just on price.
5. Mosin - the Finn M30 (91/30) is my favourite.
6. Some other mauser? - a nice Swede M38 (6.5x55) or try to find a nice Mexican M1936 (7x57), the 1909 Argentine Carbine is beautiful, but 7.65mm doesn't exacly grow on trees.

Whatever you do, make sure you save any reloadable brass.
 
DLaw3000 said:
Am I a moron or are these German K98s for sale at reasonable prices:

https://wolverinesupplies.com/shop/rifles/rifles/consignment-mauser-k98-ba-8mm-24-5-620mm-5-round-w-sling
Click to expand...

Of the two, this is the one to buy. John would not misrepresent a sale. Matched Mausers aren't being made any more, and keeping the parts altogether is not as easy as you'd think, especially because things break. If the crooked crosses and German eagles are intact, even better.

DLaw3000 said:
https://wolverinesupplies.com/shop/rifles/rifles/consignment-mauser-k98-ba-7-92mm-24-610mm-5-round-mismatch-v-good-condition
Click to expand...

Listed as mismatched. I'd leave this one on the rack.
 
Nothing wrong with specializing in a particular subject, campaign, model, etc., but keep in mind there is more to it than the thrill of the hunt for a specific something.
Sometimes you'll be sniffing around for a particular item and along comes something almost too good to pass up, but may not be something you are currently after...
There are benefits to keeping an eclectic collection in those instances, and very often the eclectic ones are the most interesting.
 
I'd go Mosin --> Mauser --> Enfield -- > K31 and than whatever else you want. At least that's how I started. Mosin will probably be cheapest out of all also cheapest when it comes to ammo. 7.92 Mauser ammo is expensive, 35 cents a shot for PPU surplus 5-6 years ago to $1.50. Brit .303 is apparently hard to find these days and it also went up quite a bit but x54R is still kicking around at half decent prices. Im guessing it's because lots of Chinese corrosive ammo available.
 
Owned a mosin for about a month. What a clunky piece of ####. But I am used to running enfields and swede mausers. Only plus to mosins is 54r surplus. But other than that, for me mosins are a hard pass. Russian ones anyways.

Reload cast 303 to 2000fps and shoot all day out to 200yds for not to much coin. Biggest problem is primers and powder at the moment for those who are new or didn't stock up.
 
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