First reloads...my cherry is offcially popped!

[fogducker]

If by being a pro in a year, you think you'll be a trusted source of unquestioned knowledge, read the forum and see how many guys argue with H4831 (Bruce), he's been loading 20 years longer than I've been breathing.

im another that has learned learned tons from H4831(Bruce).. his knowledge in reloading has been a great help to me
im still a green horn at reloading,but its guys like H4831 and a few others here that take the time and repeat them selves over and over again to the same questions(thanks for your patience in this),to help us newbies out..
so id like to hijack this thread for a minute just to thank all that have helped me and other new reloaders in there quest for knowledge in the learning of reloading..
cheers

Don

 

[kastles]

I said a prayer before my first shot of my first batch. And may have also closed my eyes for all the good that would have done.

 

[chise]

Thanks guys, for the comments, now I really find it tough to say anything more.
But chise, the usual cause of head seperation is too much headspace, not an overload. The way it works is when the firing pin hits the primer, it pushes the cartridge forward, then it fires, resulting in the case expanding against the chamber and holding it forward. The next result being the base of the cartridge is blown back to the bolt face. The result of this is a stretching of the case near the base, and it weakens, or seperates just above the web. With proper headspace the cartridge can't be pushed forwad.
In short, your loaded cartridges may be fine, if the rifle didn't have so much headspace.
Lee Enfields have a great way to change heaqdspace, they just change a screw on head on the bolt. These are made in different lengths. If you could get it to a gunsmith he would likely have spare bolt heads and a way to measure which one you need.
Failing that, you could make custom cartridges for it, but it is a bit of a hassle, getting the cases to proper size, the first time.
After you pull the bullets, get some cast bullets, if possible. Unsized .308 size would do. Load a light load of faster powder and seat the bullets out so they make tight contact with the lands. That is, the bolt should close hard. The cartridge now can not move forward from the hit of the firing pin and teh case will be perfectly fire formed, to fit the chamber on your rifle. Just neck size after this.

I have a #2 bolt head and I was thinking the #3 would fix my problem entirely. I had the gunsmith put a go/nogo gauge in the chamber and he said it's just a matter of trying a bunch of heads from his box of no1mk3 bolt parts.

I'm going to fireform the brass next because this seems easiest. Why do you recommend .308 size for a .311 (mine's probably .312) barrel? I was thinking of pulling some 123g 7.62x39 bullets from surplus russian ammo to plink with, maybe I could use them to fireform properly. Will it be dangerous to go above the 3.075 OAL in order to get that tight fit? I'm thinking 10g of Bullseye will work as well.

 

[kjohn]

These will be used in my Browning BAR .308 Win.

Are you using small base dies? It seems to me Browning autoloaders require these..... I recall loading a few for somebody with a Browning auto rifle and they wouldn't chamber properly.

 

[Bronco Boy]

These will be used in my Browning BAR .308 Win.

Are you using small base dies? It seems to me Browning autoloaders require these..... I recall loading a few for somebody with a Browning auto rifle and they wouldn't chamber properly.

Small base dies...CHECK!

The question is will these same dies work OK for my Rem 700 or do I need to get more dies?

 

[blacksmithden]

Welcome to the dark side Bronco Boy. Congratulation on your first batch. Those are some nice looking rounds. I think I can see a crimp on the neck, but I just wanted to make sure if you're going to be using them in a magazine and in a semi auto.

 

[curtmg]

im another that has learned learned tons from H4831(Bruce).. his knowledge in reloading has been a great help to me
im still a green horn at reloading,but its guys like H4831 and a few others here that take the time and repeat them selves over and over again to the same questions(thanks for your patience in this),to help us newbies out..
so id like to hijack this thread for a minute just to thank all that have helped me and other new reloaders in there quest for knowledge in the learning of reloading..
cheers

Don

Here Here!

Bruce was an immense help with my 44mag thread. Learned more about that round in probably 30 minutes of reading his posts, than in most of the hours I poured over data in other places.

Bronco Boy, Sorry, I guess I forgot my smily, I usually remember (I'll edit my post and add it). I'm well aware that even the cockiest bastard isn't going to think himself a master of reloading in 1 year, or 20 years for that matter. I hope I never stop learning about this particular aspect of shooting, it's sort of become a passion of mine. Welcome to Reloading. Remember, in reloading the only dumb question, is the one you SHOULD have asked

 

[Bronco Boy]

Welcome to the dark side Bronco Boy. Congratulation on your first batch. Those are some nice looking rounds. I think I can see a crimp on the neck, but I just wanted to make sure if you're going to be using them in a magazine and in a semi auto.

Thanks.

K, this whole crimp thing is throwing me. I will be shooting these things out of a Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) with a detachable mag.


Do I want a crimp or no? Do the dies not automatically put on a crimp?

Do I need different dies to load for my Rem 700 bolt gun? These dies are "small base".

Thanks...I'm glad no question is a stupid question!

 

[Wally]

I have a #2 bolt head and I was thinking the #3 would fix my problem entirely. I had the gunsmith put a go/nogo gauge in the chamber and he said it's just a matter of trying a bunch of heads from his box of no1mk3 bolt parts.

I'm going to fireform the brass next because this seems easiest. Why do you recommend .308 size for a .311 (mine's probably .312) barrel? I was thinking of pulling some 123g 7.62x39 bullets from surplus russian ammo to plink with, maybe I could use them to fireform properly. Will it be dangerous to go above the 3.075 OAL in order to get that tight fit? I'm thinking 10g of Bullseye will work as well.

I'm assuming he's recommending .308 cast bullets because they are smaller than .303 barrels by about +.003". This means the slug will have less resistance flying down the bbl and keep your pressures down.... henths not blowing your breach apart while fire forming your brass.

Word on the street is that a broken case extractor is a good tool to own with your enfield... though I don't own one for mine.

Those lee box loaders are awesome for loading for the enfield.

 

[curtmg]

Thanks.

K, this whole crimp thing is throwing me. I will be shooting these things out of a Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) with a detachable mag.


Do I want a crimp or no? Do the dies not automatically put on a crimp?

Do I need different dies to load for my Rem 700 bolt gun? These dies are "small base".

Thanks...I'm glad no question is a stupid question!

For your 700, you'll want to use most likely, neck sizing dies. Small base dies are usually just for semi autos, which require full length sizing, and can be finnicky about feeding. For a bolt, you want your brass to stick with just that gun, it'll be fireformed to the chamber, and you only want to size the neck. This will give the longest brass life, and the best accuracy. I know you can, and I do, neck size only using full length dies, I'm not sure if you can with small base dies, I'd think so, but I'm not sure.

The dies do not automatically put a crimp on your round, unless you set them to put a crimp on. Being as it is a semi, it would be generally recommended to crimp them, but you'll hear from both sides of the fence on that one. Try both, maybe have an uncrimped round sitting at the bottom of the magazine for 10-15 rounds or so, and see if it gets any shorter, if it does, then you definitely will need to crimp.

 

[Bronco Boy]

For your 700, you'll want to use most likely, neck sizing dies. Small base dies are usually just for semi autos, which require full length sizing, and can be finnicky about feeding. For a bolt, you want your brass to stick with just that gun, it'll be fireformed to the chamber, and you only want to size the neck. This will give the longest brass life, and the best accuracy. I know you can, and I do, neck size only using full length dies, I'm not sure if you can with small base dies, I'd think so, but I'm not sure.

The dies do not automatically put a crimp on your round, unless you set them to put a crimp on. Being as it is a semi, it would be generally recommended to crimp them, but you'll hear from both sides of the fence on that one. Try both, maybe have an uncrimped round sitting at the bottom of the magazine for 10-15 rounds or so, and see if it gets any shorter, if it does, then you definitely will need to crimp.

The plot thickens...

Thanks for the info.

 

[chise]

Thanks.

K, this whole crimp thing is throwing me. I will be shooting these things out of a Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) with a detachable mag.


Do I want a crimp or no? Do the dies not automatically put on a crimp?

Do I need different dies to load for my Rem 700 bolt gun? These dies are "small base".

Thanks...I'm glad no question is a stupid question!

This is certainly not a stupid question. I think everyone will say the same, crimp and full length resize for semi's and neck size only for bolts. Your dies shouldn't be automagically applying crimps, you'll need a factory crimp die to do it properly. I don't know whether or not the small base dies will work.

 

[Bronco Boy]

This is certainly not a stupid question. I think everyone will say the same, crimp and full length resize for semi's and neck size only for bolts. Your dies shouldn't be automagically applying crimps, you'll need a factory crimp die to do it properly. I don't know whether or not the small base dies will work.

Thanks.

I THINK these dies are putting a crimp on but I need to know for sure how to set them...

I'll post some pics of the dies and some brass run through them a little later when I have a little more time.

 

[H4831]

Chise, my only reaon for suggesting .308, unsized cast bullets, stating they would do, is because I thought a .308 may be easier to get, than the ones for a 303. The unsized ones, at least, would easily bear on the lands enough to hold the cartridge tight. I was just thinking of the cheapest bullet you could get, so any bullet will do.
Getting the correct head space on the rifle, would be by far the best solution, if you can get the right head. As it is, even factory loads may seperate, or in any case, likely ruin the brass for reloading.

 

[chise]

Ok perfect thanks for the advice. I'm going to see if the gunsmith has a #3 bolt head and if not, I'll FL resize and fireform some brass with pistol powder.

 

[H4831]

Bronco boy, to be sure you are not crimping, with crimping dies, set the seating die a good 1/8 inch from the shell holder, when the ram is full up.
With the seating die at least that far from the shell holder, keep adjusting the centre part of the seater, until you get the bullet seated where you want it.
Now, turn the centre seating part of the die, out, maybe ¼ inch. Then, slowly turn the entire seating die down, with the ram full up. You will feel the die tighten up, at the spot where it touches the crimping portion. If you want no crimp, just leave it where it is, or up a hair more.
To crimp, raise your press arm and turn the die in, just a bit. Arm full down will crimp the neck, depending on how much you turned the die down. Keep adjusting the die down, until you get the crimp you want. The die will likely end up still a bit off the shell holder, but tight to the shell holder gives the greatest crimp.
Now, with the loaded cartridge bullet seated where you want it and the seating die where you want it, only one thing remains. Screw in the centre of the die, the part that seats the bullet, until it just touches the bullet. Lock it in place and lock the die in place. Everything is set to go, just seat the bullets and everything should be fine.
Like someone said,you don't crimp jacketed bullets, unless there is a cannalure groove to crimp in.

 

[Bronco Boy]

Bronco boy, to be sure you are not crimping, with crimping dies, set the seating die a good 1/8 inch from the shell holder, when the ram is full up.
With the seating die at least that far from the shell holder, keep adjusting the centre part of the seater, until you get the bullet seated where you want it.
Now, turn the centre seating part of the die, out, maybe ¼ inch. Then, slowly turn the entire seating die down, with the ram full up. You will feel the die tighten up, at the spot where it touches the crimping portion. If you want no crimp, just leave it where it is, or up a hair more.
To crimp, raise your press arm and turn the die in, just a bit. Arm full down will crimp the neck, depending on how much you turned the die down. Keep adjusting the die down, until you get the crimp you want. The die will likely end up still a bit off the shell holder, but tight to the shell holder gives the greatest crimp.
Now, with the loaded cartridge bullet seated where you want it and the seating die where you want it, only one thing remains. Screw in the centre of the die, the part that seats the bullet, until it just touches the bullet. Lock it in place and lock the die in place. Everything is set to go, just seat the bullets and everything should be fine.
Like someone said, you don't crimp jacketed bullets, unless there is a cannalure groove to crimp in.

Thank Bruce.

Oh boy…reloading for the BAR might not have been the best place to start but it’s too late for that.

So I am 100% clear!
To reload for my BAR using Nolser Partitions I need to:

-Use Small Base Dies
-Resize the entire brass
-Seat the bullet to the correct overall length WITHOUT crimping?

Is this right?

I have reloaded 15 rounds…they all have a little crimp in them. Are they usable?

If not what can be saved?

Can the primers be popped out and used again?

How about the brass? Can it be resized AFTER being crimped already (after I pull the bullet of course)?

Thanks everyone, I know this is a lot of questions.

So much to learn.

 

[Garand]

Remember, while your at the range, cycle the ammo your going to hunt with, through the action. It prevents any surprises the day your actually hunting with it.

 

[H4831]

Bronco Boy, I see no reason not to shoot your loaded ammo. If they will chamber OK, they should be good to go. The bit of crimp may cause the neck to be a bit tight as it chambers, but if it will chamber it should be OK.
Some will likely say that more pressure will be raised, by the bullet being hard to start. My opinion, and just my opinion, is that any extra pressure would be negligable.
Maybe they will chamber normally and this worry would be non existant.

 

[Bronco Boy]

Thanks again.

If I pull the bullets and start over can I re-size them after they have been crimped?

Can I reuse the primers?

Would bullets with a cannalure groove to crimp in make more sense for use in my BAR?