First rifle

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Ranger77

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Hello CGN,

I am looking at picking up my first evil rifle. So far, I am leaning towards a Spectre WS-MCR V2 but I am looking for some guidance on what I should be considering.

Weekly range days is what I am envisioning. Suggestions?

Thank you in advance.
 
What your budget allows is a big factor here. I'm definitely fully on the Bren 2 bandwagon. It's downside is it less AR'ish and not as fully customizable. Parts are out there but come at a hefty price.
 
CobraGT said:
I've actually been pleasantly impressed by my Siberian. If you have the funds, though, I'd suggest an X95 or Bren2. Both excellent firearms.
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I'm with this guy ^^^^^^

Both are excellent quality firearms that will run and run.

I cant get into a 180 style platform because I have heard so many negative experiences - YMMV.
 
Sniffer said:
I'm with this guy ^^^^^^

Both are excellent quality firearms that will run and run.

I cant get into a 180 style platform because I have heard so many negative experiences - YMMV.
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I think both WC180 gen one and 2 have issues but nothing which can't be fixed. I would go with a slightly used type97 gen 3 to be honest. Needs some patience maybe to find but I love mine. Not many reviews on youtube since they can't have them south of the border but from what I have seen, they are more accurate than the X95.

We shall see how the Bren2 fires with the long barrel sticking out. Around 2.5K I would say go for it but not at the current prices which are Canadian prices if you know what I mean.
 
From my point of view - for 5.56mm caliber semi-autos:

Best value for money, in terms of reliability, durability, support, and available customization of components: IWI Tavor X95

"One step up" Tier of Quality: Bren 2 NR

Most "Gucci": B&T APC 223-SA - some problems related to strict tolerances reported, but very well made, Swiss quality

Lightest, best suited for CQB: Bren 2 8" barrel (restricted, requires RPAL)

Best Canadian 5.56 rifle in the $2000-2500 range: Crusader Templar (also heaviest :D )

Best Canadian 5.56 rifle in the $2500-3500 range: Sterling Arms R18 MkII (?) - if Lockhart Tactical works out its BCG issues, the Lockhart Tactical Raven 5.56

Best Canadian 5.56 rifle in the $1500-2000 range: BCL Siberian SRV2

Best Canadian 5.56 rifle value for money: Crusader Templar, or Lockhart Tactical Raven if BCG gets fixed

If you want a rifle that will shoot well, is very reliable and durable and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, IWI X95 $2400 (sale)-2750 (typical)
If you want to support Canadian firearms manufacturers and are willing to put up with some QA/QC issues, buy a Crusader Templar ($2000-2250) or a Lockhart Tactical Raven 5.56 ($2250-2700 depending on options)
If you want to spend a little more - Bren 2 ($3000-3500 range) <-- this is probably your best bet for "best in class" 5.56/.223 carbine in Canada
If money is no object and you want the best (non-prohibited) build quality available in Canada, B&T APC 223-SA ($5000+) - be warned that some users report issues due to very tight manufacturing tolerances
If you are really strapped for cash and must have a 5.56 rifle, WK180C Gen 2 ($1500), but replace the gas valve and really read up on the mods you have to do to prevent piston breakage. I would personally get a Siberian for $250 more.
If you are strapped for cash and don't mind 7.62x39, the WK181 ($1500) is looking promising - much more reliable than any of the other AR-180-based Canadian designs so far (10,000 rounds tested through CFET)

[EDIT: This summary has been edited in response to further reading and research here on CGN and at r/canadaguns]
 
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MacPapRonin said:
From my point of view - for 5.56mm calibre semi-autos:

Best value for money, in terms of reliability, durability, support, and replacement components: IWI Tavor X95

Highest Quality: B&T APC 223-SA

"One step up" Tier of Quality: Bren 2 NR

Lightest, best suited for CQB: Bren 2 8" barrel

Best Canadian 5.56 rifle in the $2000-2500 range: Crusader Templar (also heaviest :D )

Best Canadian 5.56 rifle in the $2500-3500 range: Sterling Arms R18 MkII - if Lockhart Tactical works out its BCG issues, the Lockhart Tactical Raven 5.56

Best Canadian 5.56 rifle in the $1500-2000 range: BCL Siberian SRV2

Best Canadian 5.56 rifle value for money: Crusader Templar, or Lockhart Tactical Raven if BCG gets fixed

If you want a rifle that will shoot well, is very reliable and durable and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, IWI X95 $2400 (sale)-2750 (typical)
If you want to support Canadian firearms manufacturers and are willing to put up with some QA/QC issues, buy a Crusader Templar ($2000-2250) or a Lockhart Tactical Raven 5.56 ($2250-2700 depending on options)
If you want to spend a little more - Bren 2 ($3000-3500 range)
If money is no object and you want the best quality available, B&T APC 223-SA ($5000+)
If you are really strapped for cash and must have a 5.56 rifle, WK180C Gen 2 ($1500), but replace the gas valve and really read up on the mods you have to do to prevent piston breakage.
If you are strapped for cash and don't mind 7.62x39, the WK181 ($1500) is looking promising - much more reliable than any of the other AR-180-based Canadian designs so far (10,000 rounds tested through CFET)
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Solid write up.
Lost to consider if in the market for a first NR black rifle or adding another one.
 
MacPapRonin said:
If you are strapped for cash and don't mind 7.62x39, the WK181 ($1500) is looking promising - much more reliable than any of the other AR-180-based Canadian designs so far (10,000 rounds tested through CFET)
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Thank you for that post!

I am curious, does the 7.62 version outperform - from a reliability perspective - the WK180 5.56 version?
 
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Ranger77 said:
Thank you for that post!

I am curious, does the 7.62 version outperform - from a reliability perspective - the WK180 5.56 version?
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The WK181 has a revised gas system which is apparently much more reliable than the WK180. Remember, this is 7.62x39 - the round used in the Russian SKS/AK series of rifles until they switched to 5.45x39 in the AK-74, not to be confused with the 7.62x51 NATO (.308 Winchester) round.
 
Best bang for your buck in a .223 / 5.56 rifle currently available is the SL-8.

Incidentally, it is one of the better built rifles out there and far better than any of the Canadian 180 clones.
 
beltfed said:
Best bang for your buck in a .223 / 5.56 rifle currently available is the SL-8.

Incidentally, it is one of the better built rifles out there and far better than any of the Canadian 180 clones.
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They're well built, inherently accurate and reliable but I found it quirky and front heavy (it was the front heavy that made me sell mine)
 
I'm happy with my Raven 556 so far, even with the BCG issue, and the new one should be shipping out relatively soon, so far it's light, accurate, and runs great, leaps and bounds better than my WK-180c.
 
beltfed said:
Best bang for your buck in a .223 / 5.56 rifle currently available is the SL-8.

Incidentally, it is one of the better built rifles out there and far better than any of the Canadian 180 clones.
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I love my sl8 but I wouldn't want to shoot it off hand too much. It's pretty hefty. That weight helps with the accuracy though, I find.
 
Try using a hasty sling hold or maybe invest in getting the barrel turned down.

The SL8 isn't going to be significantly different from the Templar or R18 in weight, and only marginally worse off than the BCL.

From a reliability standpoint, it will leave everything else in the dust.
 
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