First Shotgun

B

Bluegill

New member
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Location
Southern Ontario
Looking for advice for a first shotgun to purchase for hunting.

I've been waiting on my PAL application since late June and had somewhat written off being able to hunt this season after hearing horror stories at the RCMP delays, but was pleasantly suprised today when I went to check on the status of my application that it had been processed and in the mail. So I'm starting to look around a bit more seriously for a first shotgun for hunting and sport shooting.

I'm down in Southern Ontario and am hoping to get into hunting doves, small game, and turkey initially. Might try a trip or two up to crown land for some grouse. Maybe waterfowl eventually, but not right now. Deer down here don't hold a lot of attraction to me. Also want to try shooting clays, I've done a couple rounds and enjoyed it.

I'm somewhat leaning towards a 20ga double barrel, but I'm not sure if that would be a good first/only gun. Would it be better to look for a 12ga semi for a more all-purpose setup? Or should I just accept that I'll need a few guns to fill various needs?

Any recommendations for models would be welcome. For the double barrels I'm liking the Baikals for ruggedness, but they can be hard to find with interchangeable chokes. Also some of the better Turkish guns. For semi's I like the look of the Weatherby Elements.
 
You will be woefully under gunned with a 20 gauge for a first gun against turkey imo.
Others are free to disagree...buy an 870 Wingmaster in 3 inch magnum with a 28 barrel and removable chokes (Rem Choke is the trade name)
This will cover 90% of the game you mentioned, so yes another shotgun will likely be in your possession over time.
Again, my .05 worth of free advice ;)
You will receive lots and lots of advice/opinions and ultimately your savings account will offer the direction to head.
Rob
 
You wouldn't be close to "undergunned" hunting turkey with a 20 gauge. What counts is the load, not the gauge. I have friends in the US who hunt turkey exclusively with .410 singles. But they use TSS shot. I also know a Canadian pro turkey hunter, signed with Quaker Boy, whose main gun is a 20 gauge.

That said, first gun.....all round use as you are describing, I'd suggest a used pump in 12 gauge like a 870 Wingmaster. Cheap, easy to get a variety of ammo for. Extremely reliable and tough. There was a time when pumps were dead common at the range and by far the most common action for hunters. Spend a year or two with that and then figure out what you really want. When you sell the 870, you'll get all your money back.
 
I had this exact same question here a few years ago. I got lots of great advice but let me summarize and save you searching

get either a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 in 12 ga

There will be lots of debate on here which is best but both have a long history of reliability and parts availibity. For me price and availability was the deciding factor.

Additionally you should try and look for multi barrel combo deals. Its super easy to swap the barrels on these guns and that really helps you tailor to your hunt.

One thing to watch for is many of the older models only take 2 3/4 inch shells. Id hold out for something that take 3 inch as it will give you a lot more flexibility in ammo
 
Good day,
I have owned a Mossberg 500 and really liked but it wasn't quite what I was looking for. I now have a Benelli Supernova Defender and it is fantastic. Of course the Defender config isn't great for hunting but that's just a question of barrel length. The ability to load anything from 2 3/4 shells to 3 1/2 super magnum shells offers a lot of possibilities. The rubber coating is great when it's cold and the large trigger guard makes operation with gloves easy. Also the load interrupter allows you to load whatever you need in a pinch.

I have been carrying it for bear defense in the arctic. I was always carrying it with a bear banger, a BB load and then 2 slugs. I would carry more bangers in my coat pockets and the ability to hand load them without having to eject what is in the mag tube is really handy. I never needed to use it but I practised the drill several times and it is a charm to use. Have fun!
 
I'd go with a 12 gauge if your looking for versatility. You can get light 3/4 ounce 2 3/4" loads or heavier 2 ounce 3 1/2" loads. I personally prefer pumps to semis or at least my bank account does. I have a friend who uses the Weatherby element and he speaks highly of it. Personally I have used a Remington 870 for the past 10 years and just switched to a Benelli nova this waterfowl season. I prefer the ergonomics of the 870 but I'm still getting used to the nova. I'd suggest you go to your LGS and handle a few and see which ones fit and feel the best.

Edit: stay away from the rem 870 expresses go with the wing master. The reliability is much superior IMO
 
As long as you stick with a good known name, any pump gun with a 26-28" barrel and choke tubes, is a great place to start. It's hard to go wrong. Hunt with it for a season or two, do lots of target shooting, and then we can talk again about what you like / don't like.
 
You can’t beat an 870 for extra barrel options, you say Turkey hunting. Rem makes a 20” smooth bore rifle sighted barrel chambered in 2 3/4” & 3” that’s threaded for chokes, add a 28” vent rib barrel that takes chokes and your pretty much covered for any small game and waterfowl hunting. The Turkey barrel will shoot slugs well and covers you in Ont if you’re in a slug only zone.

You can get barrels ranging in length from 12.5” to 30” for an 870, show me another brand and model with that many barrel options. Plus it’s a time tested and proven platform, I prefer a pump action 12g than a semi auto but that’s just preference.
 
For what you want a 20ga will do perfectly fine. As said it's the load and choke not the headstamp.
If you're around the Chatham or blenhiem area of South west Ontario msg me and you're welcome to meet me on the skeet range and try my 20 ga guns VRS 12ga guns in doubles and semis
 
I would have went with a 12G O/U (with removable chokes) if for no other reason that ammunition is more readily available
- But if you want a 20G O/U, that ought to do the trick.

I've hunted with pump's and semi's... but still prefer double barrel guns (SxS if given the option)
- I like to be able to chose between two chokes
 
Bluegill said:
Looking for advice for a first shotgun to purchase for hunting.

I've been waiting on my PAL application since late June and had somewhat written off being able to hunt this season after hearing horror stories at the RCMP delays, but was pleasantly suprised today when I went to check on the status of my application that it had been processed and in the mail. So I'm starting to look around a bit more seriously for a first shotgun for hunting and sport shooting.

I'm down in Southern Ontario and am hoping to get into hunting doves, small game, and turkey initially. Might try a trip or two up to crown land for some grouse. Maybe waterfowl eventually, but not right now. Deer down here don't hold a lot of attraction to me. Also want to try shooting clays, I've done a couple rounds and enjoyed it.

I'm somewhat leaning towards a 20ga double barrel, but I'm not sure if that would be a good first/only gun. Would it be better to look for a 12ga semi for a more all-purpose setup? Or should I just accept that I'll need a few guns to fill various needs?

Any recommendations for models would be welcome. For the double barrels I'm liking the Baikals for ruggedness, but they can be hard to find with interchangeable chokes. Also some of the better Turkish guns. For semi's I like the look of the Weatherby Elements.
Click to expand...

Congratulations on joining a wonderful and rewarding sport! May you have the opportunity to enjoy a lifetime's worth of shooting and hunting experiences, as many on CGN have.

The choice of gun is important, and I understand your invitation to the folks here to share their suggestions. Be aware that everyone has their favourites for whatever reason, and the shooting world is full of fantastical marketing claims and, frankly, bull####, and has been since the days of the flint-lock. If gun models delivered half of what the advertising promised, there wouldn't need to be yet better models next year. Or the year after that. Again, since the days of the flint-lock.

Take in peoples' suggestions, to be sure. Experience is something we gain through many years. But let the choice be yours. It is not unusual to develop a life-long bond with one's guns as reminders of wonderful experiences afield. A gun should be your pride and joy. It should also be dependable and worth taking good care of. My advice would be to go for something second-hand, made in the 1950s or 1960s by preference, with solid machining, good steels, and attention to craftsmanship before accountants and cost-cutting ruled the businesses. I've recently seen Remington Model 31s and Ithaca Model 37s go for less than $300, and these are very well-made guns. Not much more will get a Winchester Model 12, which pre-dates the cheapening of materials and manufacturing. A double-barrelled gun is a fine choice, either side by side or over/under. Again, everyone has their preference, but the pellets come out at the same speed, more or less.

A shotgun is the simplest of devices, and the same laws of physics rule all cartridges and loads. Given similar powders, pellets will leave the barrel at a similar velocity and carry the same energy, whether it is a 12, 16 or 20. The difference is the number of pellets, maybe. A 1 oz load of lead will have the same number of pellets and the same aerial dynamics whether the cartridge it was in was a 12, 16 or 20 gauge (I usually shoot 1 oz or 7/8 oz loads in whatever gauge I happen to pick up). Some gun models look and 'feel' better in one gauge or another. Aesthetics has always been a powerful decision-maker when it comes to choosing a gun, something the marketing people have known for a long time. Some designs, finishes etc. are the latest 'thing,' like fashion. Anything to sell more. Some designs are driven by purpose, and others are just extra fluff.

Fit and how a gun feels in the hand are extremely important. Many here have recommended the Remington 870, a fine gun, to be sure. I just don't like how the fore-end feels, a wholly personal choice which takes nothing away from the quality of the gun. The point is that you should try to handle (and shoot, if you can) a wide variety of shotguns to see which ones work best for you. Better still is if you can get someone experienced to help you with gun fit, eye dominance, and shooting technique. Different guns may be better suited for some kinds of hunting, but generally speaking, any shotgun will serve most purposes, regardless of what marketers tell you.

I haven't mentioned choke because it is secondary behind fit and technique. If you don't get the first two sorted, the third won't help you. Find a well-made gun that pleases you and fits you, and learn to shoot well with it.

As a final note, keep in mind that generations of hunters have started with single-shot guns. I started with one, and it taught me patience, aim and the importance of that first shot, without one's brain thinking ahead to the second or third shot. I heard two duck hunters nearby the other morning, each hunter firing bang-bang-bang in quick succession. I'm guessing the duck kept on flying. And they probably blamed the chokes.
 
Pinfire, great post! Love it …

However, I have to disagree on the choke portion …. sorry.

I just patterned my Huglu SxS and Remington Tac-14c with bismuth shot and steel shot …. and with the upcoming waterfowl season in mind.

I love my Tac-14 … it is a small compact package that I shoot well … that feels natural to me … and that carries well … And I could kill a deer at 50 meters with a slug. No problem there …. ! And it will kill the grouse and hares reliably within 20 meters … and with the right ammo. So, I thought I might be able to use this gun for waterfowl hunting this year … Well, the pattern test taught me different ….

At 30 meters or beyond my Tac-14 is useless with it’s fixed cylinder choke (basically it has no choke) And my pattern test showed … I can get hardly any pellets on target at that range … and with that gun …. :-(

So, yes … the lesson I learned is … choke is important …. !!

I would say … make sure you buy a gun that has at least removable chokes … and where you can change the choke to your hunting situation and ammo.
 
Last edited:
Pinfire said:
As a final note, keep in mind that generations of hunters have started with single-shot guns. I started with one, and it taught me patience, aim and the importance of that first shot, without one's brain thinking ahead to the second or third shot.
Click to expand...

Are we aiming for a thread derail?!?
- Combination guns are not a bad-do-it-all option :)

I_B3_243_12-800x191__98389.1549189670.jpg



-


How a more serious note (not that a combination is not a serious option to consider).
- Having something you like (and enoy using) and fits you is quite important
 
brybenn said:
For what you want a 20ga will do perfectly fine. As said it's the load and choke not the headstamp.
If you're around the Chatham or blenhiem area of South west Ontario msg me and you're welcome to meet me on the skeet range and try my 20 ga guns VRS 12ga guns in doubles and semis
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer, but I'm closer to Hamilton so it's a bit of a trip out your way. I've got a few friends with semis and pumps that they are willing to let me play with, but none with doubles. I can't quite put my finger on why I like doubles so much, but something about the simplicity and reliability combined with the attention to build detail really appeals to me. It's going to go bang with whatever size load is put into the chamber every time, and look good while doing it.

I get the sense from some folks that they feel the 20ga is an inferior load, but when you look at the physics it's the same size shot at the same velocity. Only difference is that depending on the size of the load you may have a smaller quantity of shot in the load. However, when you look at some modern loads using tungsten you can drop shot sizes and get the count back up while retaining the stopping force. I find that really interesting and it's something I would like to look into further myself.
 
Pinfire said:
Congratulations on joining a wonderful and rewarding sport! May you have the opportunity to enjoy a lifetime's worth of shooting and hunting experiences, as many on CGN have.

The choice of gun is important, and I understand your invitation to the folks here to share their suggestions. Be aware that everyone has their favourites for whatever reason, and the shooting world is full of fantastical marketing claims and, frankly, bull####, and has been since the days of the flint-lock. If gun models delivered half of what the advertising promised, there wouldn't need to be yet better models next year. Or the year after that. Again, since the days of the flint-lock.

Take in peoples' suggestions, to be sure. Experience is something we gain through many years. But let the choice be yours. It is not unusual to develop a life-long bond with one's guns as reminders of wonderful experiences afield. A gun should be your pride and joy. It should also be dependable and worth taking good care of. My advice would be to go for something second-hand, made in the 1950s or 1960s by preference, with solid machining, good steels, and attention to craftsmanship before accountants and cost-cutting ruled the businesses. I've recently seen Remington Model 31s and Ithaca Model 37s go for less than $300, and these are very well-made guns. Not much more will get a Winchester Model 12, which pre-dates the cheapening of materials and manufacturing. A double-barrelled gun is a fine choice, either side by side or over/under. Again, everyone has their preference, but the pellets come out at the same speed, more or less.

A shotgun is the simplest of devices, and the same laws of physics rule all cartridges and loads. Given similar powders, pellets will leave the barrel at a similar velocity and carry the same energy, whether it is a 12, 16 or 20. The difference is the number of pellets, maybe. A 1 oz load of lead will have the same number of pellets and the same aerial dynamics whether the cartridge it was in was a 12, 16 or 20 gauge (I usually shoot 1 oz or 7/8 oz loads in whatever gauge I happen to pick up). Some gun models look and 'feel' better in one gauge or another. Aesthetics has always been a powerful decision-maker when it comes to choosing a gun, something the marketing people have known for a long time. Some designs, finishes etc. are the latest 'thing,' like fashion. Anything to sell more. Some designs are driven by purpose, and others are just extra fluff.

Fit and how a gun feels in the hand are extremely important. Many here have recommended the Remington 870, a fine gun, to be sure. I just don't like how the fore-end feels, a wholly personal choice which takes nothing away from the quality of the gun. The point is that you should try to handle (and shoot, if you can) a wide variety of shotguns to see which ones work best for you. Better still is if you can get someone experienced to help you with gun fit, eye dominance, and shooting technique. Different guns may be better suited for some kinds of hunting, but generally speaking, any shotgun will serve most purposes, regardless of what marketers tell you.

I haven't mentioned choke because it is secondary behind fit and technique. If you don't get the first two sorted, the third won't help you. Find a well-made gun that pleases you and fits you, and learn to shoot well with it.

As a final note, keep in mind that generations of hunters have started with single-shot guns. I started with one, and it taught me patience, aim and the importance of that first shot, without one's brain thinking ahead to the second or third shot. I heard two duck hunters nearby the other morning, each hunter firing bang-bang-bang in quick succession. I'm guessing the duck kept on flying. And they probably blamed the chokes.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input @Pinfire. That's some good advice there. I'll be sure to pay more attention to how a gun fits/feels than being tied down to a particular model or action. Like you said, a lot of the market is driven by hype (just like pretty much any sporting goods), but I'm the type to research everything and am more interested in good equipment rather than the latest equipment. And no matter how shiny and new your gun is if you can't shoot well it won't do you any good.

Interesting final note about single shots. The thought has crossed my mind, for turkey and small game a single shot should be a very usable gun. However, I think for bird hunting I'd like to have at least a second shot available.
 
I grew up thinking a double gun with 2 triggers was dumb. I grew up on a Ithaca 37 pump and rem 1100 semi auto. Then Mossberg pumps. It wasn't until I went to skeet where a kind old gentleman watched me shoot with my pump then offered to let me try a double gun. He promised me it would suit my style of shooting. He uncased a Holland and Holland and let me try it. Very next week I bought my first double with dual triggers. Been my favorite ever since. No I couldn't afford a Holland or any thing from London but I still own and use that first double I bought. There is something about a double. It is worth trying

You are correct that a 20ga is not much different than a 12 in terms of what it can do. Pellet count. Variety of loads. And a 12ga will pattern bigger shot pellets better are the pros to a 12 over a 20. A 20ga will be lighter and narrower if built on a scaled frame. If buying a double in 20ga a scaled frame is something I would definitely recommend instead of a 20 build on a 12ga frame
 
FLHTCUI said:
You will be woefully under gunned with a 20 gauge for a first gun against turkey imo.
Others are free to disagree...buy an 870 Wingmaster in 3 inch magnum with a 28 barrel and removable chokes (Rem Choke is the trade name)
This will cover 90% of the game you mentioned, so yes another shotgun will likely be in your possession over time.
Again, my .05 worth of free advice ;)
You will receive lots and lots of advice/opinions and ultimately your savings account will offer the direction to head.
Rob
Click to expand...

The key phrase in this sentence is "imo"....if you can and I do daily during hunting season knock down cleanly BIG HONKERS out to 40 yards with a 20ga loaded with 7/8oz of steel #2 shot you can and will kill Turkey's standing or walking in front of you with a 7/8oz or 1oz load of lead 5's or 6's easily. It's the combination of choke and payload and putting that payload where it counts that kills not the gauge. It only takes a few pellets in the head and neck to kill a turkey. Nobody I know is body shooting them. Trying to penetrate that heavy body covered with those massive wings would be a chore for any load.
 
As long as you know what your patterns are at a given distance, you ought to be good to go

cartridge_pattern_at_30_yards1.jpg

- Main advantages of a 12G over a 20G, is you'll have more pellets in your pattern... or as the distance increase, "holes" will appear in the 20G pattern before the they appear in the 12G pattern
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom