First Target Rifle

Ratzilla

Ratzilla

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So I'm thinking about purchasing my first bolt action rifle. I've only been shooting about a year so I am pretty new to this. I know my way around firearms but am very far off to being "good" at shooting.

I am looking to purchase my first bolt action rifle that I intend to use at the range at 200 yards. My goal is to achieve half inch groups. I know this is ambitious and I don't intend on being able to do so without practice. I just want a rifle that can achieve this so that I can eventually improve near the firearms limits.

Including optics, I want to spend around 1200. I figure that works out to a 800 dollar rifle and a 400 dollar scope or so. Of course, I'd be willing to change my budget if something is significantly better for a marginally amount of cash.

I've been looking at the Tikka T3 lite stainless rifles. I like the look of that rifle but have heard not so great things. Another option would be a remginton 700. Anyone have any suggestions?

As for calibre, I think a .308 just because it's a popular round and the ammo is sold everywhere.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
Also would like some opinions on a good scope for 400 dollar or so.
 
My reccommendation .223 caliber for 200yd targets is lots and will punch holes all day long. Cheap walmart ammo is available. Rifle - your choice for under $800 lots out there, optics-bushnell variables are in that price range(under $400). Check the EE some great optics for sale for reasonable prices. To get a factory .308 sporting rifle to group under 1/2 " at 200 yds out of the box with factory ammo would be phenomenable. Rifle probably would require some gunsmithing and reloading work. Checkout some of the tactical rifle builders and see what they have for sale.
 
Can I make a suggestion?

If all you are shooting is centerfire rifles, you are going to spend an honest to god fortune reaching proficiency.

If you shoot precision rimfire, all you need is a training plan, preferably a coach, and the time and discipline to get to and from a firing range, weather permitting.

If however, you also own a precision airgun, you can better spend daily trigger time in your basement, garage, backyard, or if you are like me, in your living room (single university student). It's warm, quiet, close, and you can get a good training session in, in the time it takes (for me at least), to just get everything together, out to the car, and drive down to the range.

It may not be manly, without the boom and smoke, but it's how olympic athletes become the finest shooters on the face of the earth.
 
Remington 5R milspec and Falcon menace scope.
Use 168 grain Federal Gold match ammo. You'll get your .5 moa or less.

There's a store selling the 5R for 1K right now. I can't remember the name. Do a search and you'll find it.

Personally I find the .308 round very easy to shoot. It's one of my favourites. The recoil is slower and a longer push.
 
+2, 308 is great round but it could be bit pricey if one does not reload yet. 223 might get you more trigger time for the money and with negligible recoil you may achieve your 0.5 moa sooner than with 308.
 
1/2 inch groups at 200 yards. That's a 1/4 MOA and I don't know of any factory rifle that can produce such accuracy and certainly not with factory ammo and a light barrel. You might get it to happen once or twice but not day in and day out.
My choice would be a fast twist heavy barrelled rifle in .223.
 
Bear in mind there are very few factory made target rifles - and none (new) within your budget. There are also no factory rifles reliably capable of achieving the sort of results you are expecting with factory ammo. What you buy off the shelf in the Remington, Tikka, Savage line are "sporting" rifles that are designed for hunting. They do not tolerate the sort of heat you generate by shooting off buckets of ammo in one sitting and they are not manufactured with the sort of tolerances that make 1/4 MOA groups possible. There are the odd flukes for sure, but no guarantees.

The other factor that contributes greatly to that sort of accuracy is the ability to precision hand-load ammo using high quality parts. That represents a total investment of up to thousands of dollars on its own.

The Tikka T-3 is a nice rifle, smooth action and as accurate as any rifle you'll find on the shelf. I like them.

There are many used rifles on the Equipment Exchange that are reasonably good deals

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258383
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262468
 
"...achieve half inch groups..." Decidedly optimistic at 200. Won't happen with factory ammo and a stock rifle. Heavy barreled match rifles using carefully loaded match grade bullets are hard pressed to do it.
 
Now and then I've had a good used target rifle fall into my lap at a reasonable price, and more often than not it was in .308. One was a Sportco HB Mauser another was a Tikka Continental. A used 700 I got (I wanted that particular one badly) I paid too much for. What I like about Remington is the trigger. It is adjustable for creep and over-travel as well as weight, while some others are adjustable for weight only, resulting is a light squishy trigger.

If cash is tight I would point out that .308 Match ammo is expensive. Walmart ammo will leave you disillusioned. If factory ammo is what you are going to shoot, then a .223 makes more sense from a center-fire point of view, but as Bobby Ironsights stated in his post, a match grade rimfire might be a better choice at this point in your life, then move to a centerfire when you can begin to reload and make a significant investment.

A cheap scope is false economy, and cheap mounts are worse. A fixed power scope is cheaper than a variable, but if mirage is bad you can't dial under it. A cheaper solution to get you started might be a good set of iron sights rather than a scope, but that depends on what your interest truly is. The irons are a good marksmanship training tool, but you won't likely be shooting half minute groups with them. You need a rear aperture that is micrometer adjustable for windage and elevation and a post front sight. A full blown rear target sight with an adjustable diopter and a globe front sight will rival and possibly surpass the cost of a good scope. But a simple receiver sight, with adjustment knobs and a selection of apertures and a front post will get you shooting for about half the cost of a quality target scope with good mounts. Begin your shooting with Walmart or milsurp ammo, but once you have mastered the basics of marksmanship, the chances are that you will want to upgrade to match grade ammo.

Let's consider cost for a moment. A match grade barrel is going to be in the $600 range. If you could find a used 700, spinning on a good barrel is the first step. Lets say you found a used M-700 for $350 and you decided to stay with the factory stock and trigger. A barrel is $600 with maybe another $100 for cutting the chamber, bedding is $150, truing up the action about $200. If you are not confident enough to set up the trigger yourself, that will be another $50. Let's say that the sights installed are $300. Your total investment comes to about $1750, and you haven't bought a bought a round of ammo yet, let alone the support items you'll need like a gun case, cleaning kit and a small tool kit. If the trigger can't be adjusted or is badly worn, you are looking at $200+ for a Jewell, and half of that for a factory equivalent trigger.
 
If you want a factory rifle that might do what you want (with handloads), take a look at Cooper rifles. However, as noted above, you will find they are MUCH more than what you want to pay.

I would also suggest a 22 target rifle for training. If you can master shooting a 22 at 100m then you will have no problem shooting anything at long range. Want to get really good? then practice with a 22 offhand at 50m, (and also sitting and prone).

Have you checked out the price of good ammo, such as Federal Gold Medal Match? 308 Win will cost you about $2 a round.

Cheap 22 ammo is $20/500 and very good target ammo is $70/500


Also, check out posts by Mysticplayer. He has built inexpensive, superb preforming rifles on Savage/Stevens actions.
 
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If its strictly for punching paper at 200 yards I agree with the 223 suggestion. Its generally half the price of 308. I'd look for a rifle with a heavy barrel and target style laminate or wood stock. I doubt any decent composite target stock would be within the budget you mention. The Savage plastic stocks are poor in my opinion.
 
Of the factory rifles mentioned, the R5 / Falcon Menace combo will get you closest to your goal but I would use the 175 gr SMK not the 168's referred to. In order to get to the level you wish though, and assuming you wish to stick to centrefire, you are probably better off shooting .223 which will allow for more quality practice time. To keep within the price you mentioned, you are probably looking at a HB Savage with something like an elite 4200 scope or similar (or a Falcon if you want that look) but I don't think half-inch groups at 200 are realistic for that combo.

Quite frankly I would recommend you adjust your goal to 1 MOA ( ie a 2" group at 200 yards ) and spend time working towards that. If 1 MOA is your goal then a number of factory combo's will get you there if you do your part. My Savage 10 Fp with a Choate stock and Falcon Menace is a sub-moa rifle out to 300 but not a 1/4 MOA but, having said that, 1/4 MOA may well not be achievable by me with any firearm so "your mileage may vary".

Good luck !
 
Thank you for your suggestions guys.

I appreciate the suggestions about getting more trigger time. But I have a ruger 10/22 for that. As for iron sights, I have a cz-858 which I can practice with although I do find it a bit less exciting than using a scope. I guess that's my personal preference.

As for ammo, I'm just about to get myself some reloading equipment so I will be reloading the rounds that I shoot. I apologize for not mentioning this before. I understand that achieving half inch groups requires a lot of work. Trying out different loads, trying different trigger weights and I know I'll have to spend months and months trying to even get close. I guess I made it unclear why i set this "goal". If I don't have a goal, there's nothing for me to reach for. I will be plenty happy to shoot consistent 2 inch groups at 200. But if that is my goal, I will have nothing else to look forward to.

But having read your suggestions, I guess my question is, is it better to buy a 800 dollar rifle and get an aftermarket barrel, trigger job etc? Or would a factory rifle of the same price as the 800 dollar rifle + aftermarket be better? The reason I'm asking is because I like the cz 750 but it is currently out of my price range. I'd be willing to get it if I have to spend that much anyways to have the same accuracy.

I probably won't be getting another bolt action rifle for a while as I've already spent more than I anticipated into firearms in my first year of shooting. This is why I wanted a .308 but I will consider a .223 as well.
 
I've had custom barrels on 4 different rifles, and to me the cost has been worth while in each case. The custom barrel allows you to choose the length, contour, twist, the type of steel, and the style of rifling. When the rifle is chambered, you can have the chamber cut to match a specific bullet, seated to a specific depth.

My .308 target rifle for example has a 28" 1:8 twist Kreiger barrel chambered so a 200 gr MK is seated with the shank in the neck of the case and only the boat-tail extending into the shoulder area. This allows me to drive a 200 gr MK at just a hair under 2700 fps, not bad for a .308. Had I chosen an AI chamber 2700+ fps is not out of the question. An off the rack HB .308 with a 1:12 twist probably won't even stabilize a 200 gr MK, and if it did the velocity due to the 24" barrel and the conventional chamber length would be about 2400 fps. While I can't do it on command, every now and then this rifle produces a group in the low .1's", and quarter minute groups are routine. A .222 I had, also on a Remington action, had a 24" 1:7 Gaillard barrel topped with a Leupold fixed 12X scope. With match bullets this thing was beyond belief. Interestingly the fast twist was not detrimental to the accuracy of light bullets. Some of the best groups I shot were with 52 gr MK's and 25 grs of 748.
 
Tomochan said:
Of the factory rifles mentioned, the R5 / Falcon Menace combo will get you closest to your goal but I would use the 175 gr SMK not the 168's referred to...

Good luck !
Click to expand...

I agree about the 175 SMK. However I've only been able to get 168 grain Federal Gold match off the shelf. I haven't had luck finding 175 SMK in local stores. I'll be reloading later.

The beauty of the 5R: You get a very nice rifle out of the box that only needs a $50 trigger job to lower the weight. The trigger itself is excellent only it's too heavy. Easily fixed. The stock is a high quality HS stock. 24 inch bull barrel with 1:11.25 twist so yup those 175 grains will shoot perfectly. Right now you can find them for $1000 , $1123 after shipping and taxes. That's a hell of a lot of rifle for that price. Plus even someone who doesn't reload can get out there and experience what an accurate rifle can do.

If your goals are for a really nice accurate and handy rifle straight out of the box with almost no messing around then the 5R is a good buy. When you get into the reloading and custom stuff it's another ball game. But this is a good start and it's nice to have a rifle where you don't need to reload to get excellent accuracy.

As for the .223 the biggest problem right now is finding good ammo. It's very hard to find anything in the heavier weights such as 62 or 64 grain ammo. Most is 55 grain plinking ammo. Pretty much every .223 rifle these days has the faster twist rate for heavier ammo. To get excellent results you'll need to reload for this caliber.
 
You've got some good suggestions here, especially from Boomer. There are ¼ MOA rifles out there, some factory, some custom, but in either case you'll have to shell out some serious funds to get your hands on one.

I was in the same boat you were (not a long time shooter looking for a really accurate rifle) and decided to go the factory route and getting ¼MOA is tough, especially if you don't use some aids like front and rear rests. Using only a couple of sandbags under the forend of my stock, I made a 4-shot ¼MOA group once in the few months that I've been shooting. Since then, I've come close, usually in the ½MOA range, but not as good as that group.

I don't know if you can do this with the kind of budget you're on, but I suggest you try this: look for a decent varmint rifle (avoid the word tactical - I #### you not, you'll just spend more without much return) in .223 (or .308 if you must/can afford) and a medium quality scope (Burris comes to mind, I don't exactly have encyclopedic knowledge of mid-range scopes). Get good at reloading and save some more funds and try to get a gunsmith to accurize the rifle for you. You likely won't make ¼MOA with that setup, but at least you can get sub-MOA and put all your hits in the centre white circle of a 200y target and work on getting them as tight as possible.

Hope this helps (from one beginner to another)! :)
 
For your $1200 budget I'd recommend a heavy varmit barrel 223 with a good mid-level scope (Nikon, Bushnell, etc) and you'll still have money for reloading equipment ... well, depending on what you get.

I picked up a Savage 223 12FVSS/Nikon Buckmaster for target shooting this spring and have been very pleased. I think its a great way to get started centerfire target shooting and reloading with your goal set at making it a "just under" MOA shooter. Later on you can purchase a new barrel, stock, trigger, etc to try and shrink your groups.
 
Where do they sell the remington 5R? Many have recommended this rifle and I'd like to check it out.

As for optics, would the falcon menace 4.5-18x56 be a good fit for the rifles discussed in this thread?
 
Frontier - a CGN sponsor - for the R5. Marlin is a great guy to deal with. As for the Falcon - Mike at Allen Gunworks ( CyberK on this site ) is the man. That combo works well and it is what I have. I used an EGW 20moa base and TPS rings. You will like the result.
 
Decent rifle

X2 on what Maynard said.
.223, fast twist barrell (heavy barrell) look at a used one, Ruger makes some decent heavy barrelled laminate stocked rifles.
Start reloading, you,re not likely to get the accuracy (slim chance) from factory ammo that your asking for, you,ll have to reload to do it and you,ll learn what's needed to get the accuracy.
$400 won't get you anything decent for a scope, you,re closer to $700 + so look for a USED Rifle in decent shape. Someone local to you from gun nuts could probably point you at a local store that might have what you need.
Start at 100 Yds and learn to use a trigger properly, then move to 200.

M.
 
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