First time bumping the shoulders and I'm a little confused...

[mustang979]

So my brass has been fired a 3 times in my r700 and the handle is starting to to get a little stiff when chambering a round. I believe I need to bump the shoulders back .001-.002 to ease chambering the rounds. I understand that I need to back the FL die way out, run a piece of brass measure the headspace, adjust the die and rinse and repeat until I get the desired results with the shoulders.

I'm using the lee ultimate die set, do I pull the decapping rod from my FL die or would I leave it in? Is there any negatives to either choice? I'm planning on running the brass thru my FL die to bump the shoulders, then run them thru my neck sizing/decapping die to maintain similar neck tension to what I am getting now. For this reason I am thinking I should just pull the decaping rod from the FL die. Will I need to lube the cases up? No one mentions lubing the cases, so I'm thinking no lube.

 

[Chinbullco]

Should get a case gauge to compare actual "cartridge headspace" and adjust your full length sizing die to maintain that distance. What is FS die? I'm familiar will FL and NK dies. Moving brass requires lube.

 

[mustang979]

Sorry, you are right, I should have put FL and not FS die (I'll edit the post).

I have a dillon case gauge. when I put the brass in it, doesn't seem particularly long or outside of the go-no go specs, just very close to it.

 

[Chinbullco]

Is the shoulder the problem? Might be cartridge body. What cartridge? Smoke a FL sized cartridge in a candle and chamber it. If shoulder needs to be set back chambered cartridge will show scuff marks on shoulder.

 

[Mean Steak]

Are you trimming the cases? You wouldn't believe how much they stretch after a few firings.
Yes they will require lube when resizing

 

[jugi16]

Most FL dies if not set up right while trying to bump the shoulder can actually increase the headspace. By a die that is specifically used for bumping shoulders, and use a headspace gauge to verify you are bumping the shoulder back 1-2 thou from a fired case from YOUR rifle.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/die-issues-when-bumping-shoulders/

 

[mustang979]

Are you trimming the cases? You wouldn't believe how much they stretch after a few firings.
Yes they will require lube when resizing

It's .308 and I measure each individual case after neck sizing and trim as required.

 

[bigedp51]

mustang979

I stopped using Wilson type case gauges and went to the Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge for several reasons. If you buy the Hornady gauge you do not have to buy a gauge for each caliber. The Hornady gauge is more accurate and very easy to see the readings if you have a digital vernier caliper.

Below a fired case from my AR15 carbine.

Below the same case after full length resizing with .003 shoulder bump.

Below is what happens during full length resizing, as you can see the case does get larger than chamber headspace length during sizing. What you want for a bolt action is to push/bump the shoulder back .001 to .002 shorter than the red dotted line below. For a semiauto it should be .003 to .006 shorter than the red dotted line.

Below on the right is a standard RCBS shell holder, and on the left is a Redding competition shell holder and where the case rests in the shell holder it is .004 "LOWER" than the RCBS shell holder. Meaning the case when full length resized will be .004 longer than with the RCBS shell holder. I use the competition shell holder because the die does not have to be adjusted up and down to control shoulder bump. And the die will always contact the shell holder and the press will cam over for more uniform shoulder bump. There are five of these shell holder in the set and are from plus .002 to .010 for adjusting shoulder bump.

The old way of doing the same as above would be to adjust the die up and down and starting by placing a .010 feeler gauge between the die and shell holder and screw the die down until it contacts the feeler gauge and lock the die down. You keep adjusting the die "DOWN" with thinner feeler gauges until the cartridge chambers with no bolt closing resistance. (going by feel or by smoking the case neck and checking for contact)

The only cases I neck size are for milsurp rifles with larger diameter chambers with longer headspace settings because a standard "civilian" SAAMI die will over resize the case and shorten the case life.

For everything else I full length resize for good reasons, below was written by Kevin Thomas of Team Lapua USA who also worked at Sierras testing lab.

NOTE: If the expander is the same diameter in the full length die as it is in the neck sizing die you do not need to do a two step sizing operation. If the full length dies expander is larger you can chuck it in a drill and use very fine sand paper or Crocus cloth and reduce its diameter.

I also highly recommend Forster Full length dies with the high mounted expander, they will greatly reduce your neck runout during sizing.

I bought the Forster expander and spindle assemblies to refit my RCBS dies because of the reduced neck runout.

 

[Chinbullco]

FL sizer dies from Whidden Gunworks are built a bit short. Their dies come with shoulder bump gauge. What a concept. Need a vernier caliper compare loaded and fired.

 

[jeff270]

That seems a bit complicated when you could turn the sizing die in a bit at a time till the
resized case chambers easily.

 

[Ganderite]

That seems a bit complicated when you could turn the sizing die in a bit at a time till the
resized case chambers easily.

^^ That's how I have been doing it. With lubed cases.

 

['Boo]

That seems a bit complicated when you could turn the sizing die in a bit at a time till the
resized case chambers easily.

Don't complicate things with simplicity! LoL

BTW that is the way I do it too.

 

[BigBraz15]

I also do it the easy way, and have never had an issue.

 

[Chinbullco]

Why wouldn't you trim all brass to minimum length and be done with trimming?

I assumed you had adjusted your FL sizer down a bit at a time, chambering cases to test for fit. If you did this and ran out of room because die and shellholder made contact you will need to grind your shellholder, or purchase a set of Redding Competition SH's that are progressively .002" shorter in a set of 5, max .010".

 

[bigedp51]

That seems a bit complicated when you could turn the sizing die in a bit at a time till the
resized case chambers easily.

The Forster Co-Ax press allows the dies to float and self center in the press and on a standard press it is possible to screw the die into the press and lock the die down off center or cocked in the threads.

On a standard press a lubed case should be inside the die at the top of the ram stroke to "center" the die in the press threads and then tighten the dies lock ring.

It not complicated when you are making concentric ammunition and reloading ammunition better than factory ammunition.

All the tips I have written here have come from reloading manuals and from AccurateShooter.com to produce minimum runout.

My Rockchucker press is 42 years old and has a little slop in the press, when the die makes hard contact with the shell holder any slop and misalignment from the press is out of the equation.

And all my dies have a Lee lock ring that is tightened finger tight and allows the die to float and self center in the press threads.

Below is one of my RCBS dies equipped with a Lee lock ring and a Forster expander and spindle assembly and the cases have .001 or less runout after sizing.

I'm retired with nothing to do and all day to do it and I do not think its complicated to produce accurate ammunition. "BUT" that's just my opinion and if your happy with your results that's all that matters.