first time buyer for a shotgun!
- Thread starter mandingo
- Start date
Saskbooknut, that was exactly my thought. For some, upland hunting is all about wing shooting ... some would even consider shooting a bird on the ground as unethical.
And for others ... upland hunting is just that ... picking them off the ground.
I remember when I was introduced to grouse hunting by the in-laws in Quebec .... we would drive for hours along remote gravel roads and till we saw a grouse. We would stop the truck .... get out ... load the guns, and shoot that bird on the ground. They called that hunting ....
And yes, why would you want a longer barrel in that situation and for that purpose? A 12.5 inch barrel is much easier to maneuver in and out of the truck .... and will kill a grouse on the ground just fine.
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Since you concede that barrels that short result in the loss of some muzzle velocity, and that follow through on moving targets isn't as easy, I think to some extent you agree. Firing slugs from such a barrel would definitely not be conducive to good groups.
In this thread, I am responding to a shooter who is new to hunting and sport shooting with shotguns - not trying to make vast generalizations relative to all possibilities. I apologize if I made everyone feel as if painted by the same brush. If we were talking about all shooters in all situations, I would be the first to admit that one could be successful hunting with a homemade shotgun based on black steel gas pipe. Basically, anything that'll fling pellets downrange can and will work, at least to some degree. But, personally I wouldn't use any of these examples to hunt and I wouldn't advise a new shooter to start there, either.
Once again, sorry if I offended with my targeted comments.
Some people develop quite the skill with a short barreled shotgun .....
but it takes a bit of training .... and lots of practice ... I guess.
So, the question is what kind of hunting would the OP like to engage in .... and how much is he willing to practice and train?
but it takes a bit of training .... and lots of practice ... I guess.
So, the question is what kind of hunting would the OP like to engage in .... and how much is he willing to practice and train?
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I would go for a standard 12ga 28" shotgun personally, but if you find they are just too big and ungainly a 20ga 26" can be fairly svelte. Wood/blued 12ga pump of choice for me would be a Browning BPS https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/shotguns/bps/current/bps-field.html
I use short barrel pump guns for hunting and skeet and see no real difference in kills or scores. When using a birds head grip my skeet score drops 2 or 3 targets but a full stock with a 12.5" barrel works great for me and ive shot perfect rounds in trap and skeet. You watch the target not the barrel and lead accordingly. With good practice its no harder. Good practice includes good follow thru.
Remember when skeet starter barrels of 24 and 26" were common and preferred. Times and styles have changed but physics hasnt.
A pump gun with say nearly 20" barrel is likely close to the same length as a double gun in 25 or 26" barrel configuration. Velocity loss or gain in those lengths is likely more wide spread shell to shell then barrel to barrel as many things affect velocity not just length
To the op buy what fits and feels good and points where you look. You could pass on a pump and try a coach gun with 20" barrels. Double guns are shorter overall as they lack the reciever length. Or even a 26" double to give it the shorter feel. If set on a pump mossberg and remington are best bets as aftermarket and used barrels come up at various lengths and easily interchange. The remington 1100 semi auto had an upland version with a 22" thread for chokes barrel but its a semi. Still a classic though. Browning offered an upland special with a 22" barrel as well. Not sure if its still in production but they come up often on the used market
Theres always the option of cutting a longer barrel and having it threaded for chokes if you desire choke tubes. Beads are easy to reinstall.
If you have deeper pockets ithaca new model 37 is available with a custom ordered 24" barrel option but it would need to be imported and im not sure who deals with ithaca now. Clay at prophet river would likely know. He may very well be able to import one himself youd have to ask
Best of luck in your search
Remember when skeet starter barrels of 24 and 26" were common and preferred. Times and styles have changed but physics hasnt.
A pump gun with say nearly 20" barrel is likely close to the same length as a double gun in 25 or 26" barrel configuration. Velocity loss or gain in those lengths is likely more wide spread shell to shell then barrel to barrel as many things affect velocity not just length
To the op buy what fits and feels good and points where you look. You could pass on a pump and try a coach gun with 20" barrels. Double guns are shorter overall as they lack the reciever length. Or even a 26" double to give it the shorter feel. If set on a pump mossberg and remington are best bets as aftermarket and used barrels come up at various lengths and easily interchange. The remington 1100 semi auto had an upland version with a 22" thread for chokes barrel but its a semi. Still a classic though. Browning offered an upland special with a 22" barrel as well. Not sure if its still in production but they come up often on the used market
Theres always the option of cutting a longer barrel and having it threaded for chokes if you desire choke tubes. Beads are easy to reinstall.
If you have deeper pockets ithaca new model 37 is available with a custom ordered 24" barrel option but it would need to be imported and im not sure who deals with ithaca now. Clay at prophet river would likely know. He may very well be able to import one himself youd have to ask
Best of luck in your search
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I’ll concede that drop in muzzle velocity is a factor but not enough of one to affect an ethical kill, with practice (which every hunter should be doing) wing shooting with 20” and less barrels is not that hard. I’ve honestly seen zero difference in slug groups with any of my barrels from 12.5” up to 30”, the biggest impact on slug grouping is your style of sights and the ability to have a repeatable sight picture. It’s not rocket science, it’s shotgunning and at relatively short distances in the grand scheme of hunting. Picking up a short barrel shotgun when you never practice with it is no different than bubba sighting in his deer rifle with one or two shoots and saying good enough at the pattern he’s getting, we’ve all seen how bad those once a year shooters are.
You'd be guessing wrong. I have a Dominion Arms Marine with a 14" barrel. I bought it for bear defence. The short barrel is handy for back packing and less likely to get snagged on a branch in a tight situation. I've only shot it to break it in and to observe the best choke for buckshot. It will never be used for hunting and, I hope, never for the intended purpose.
Maritime Storm
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Riverview, NB
Or split the difference, the Benelli Nova comes in 24" Part#20006 in 12ga and Part#20035 in 20ga.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Oh geez, I hope you never have to use it either. Buckshot as a bear defense load wouldn’t be top on my list to grab.
I never understood the connection between longer barrels and better slug accuracy. That doesn't seem to apply in the world of rifles, does it matter more in smooth bore?
I've picked up a short barreled SG but haven't been able to get to the range to test yet. I have a red dot on mine so sight radius is non-issue.
You have shot 22-23 in skeet with a birds head pump gun?
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
From my experience shooting slugs it makes no difference, sight radius, being able to consistently repeat a solid sight picture and how you mount the shotgun as well as type of sight being used will have more impact on slug grouping. Along with all the other shooting fundamentals, trigger press etc etc. A bead sight typically is the least easy to be accurate with, good rifle sights will be better.
Ironically out of all my 870 barrels the least accurate one is the rifled slug barrel but that’s due to ammo more than anything else, my 14” & 20” rifle sighted barrels are the best. I like them better than a red dot, or ghost rings. If you watch any amount of Taofledermaus videos you’ll realize that more velocity with a slug doesn’t always mean more accuracy, so maybe a short barrel is the superior slug barrel lol. Especially if it’s threaded for chokes. That said I have some higher velocity slugs that are plenty accurate, just wish I could find a brand of 12g sabot my rifled barrel really liked.
With apologies to the OP, if we're straying too far off topic:
It's my turn to concede the point. I agree that slugs would most often be the better choice - especially at distances over 15 yards.
My experience with bears is that both males and females would rather stay away from humans altogether (thankfully). Females can be trouble, though, if they have a cub(s) in the area. Real trouble if you get in between them!
Males, on the other hand, seldom want to bother with people. When they do charge, it's most often a bluff charge. Standing your ground without shouting, waving, or otherwise returning the bluff will usually satisfy them and they will go their own way, satisfied that they showed you who's boss.
I'd rather not shoot a female with cubs, nor do I want to shoot a male unless I'm pretty sure it's no bluff. This means, if I'm going to pull the trigger, the bear is charging past my 15 yard perimeter. Terminal energy is the deciding factor. The mass of the slug or buck shot times the muzzle velocity determines the terminal energy. At 15 yards or less, I feel confident both loads will get the job done.
Yes.
