If you're buying a first gun, it's pretty much a crap shoot; BUT if you can't hold the gun properly and reach the trigger, you'll be compensating. That's as close to 'fit' as I ever get. First generation Sigs, for example, don't work well for me because when I take a firing grip on the DA trigger, only my finger nail reaches the trigger face. Can I monkey the grip and deal with it? Yeah, but why ? I can just buy a gun that doesn't have the handicap of 2 different trigger pulls, and 2 different trigger reaches, one of which is a bad fit.
Fit vs Fundamentals
- Thread starter Tongarirohiker
- Start date
For a first time buyer, the reason it's important the person gets a handgun that fits their hand and natural body mechanics is important is that it will make using the handgun more fun and intuitive, so it encourages practice and helps maintain interest. Feeling like you're struggling against equipment you're supposed to be learning to use will reduce interest in the activity. Remember, not everybody gets into pistol shooting with aspirations to be Bullseye champions or break IPSC records, but if they like casual target shooting and find it rewarding, those interests are a lot more likely to develop.
I got to experience this whole affair firsthand with my wife. She didn't like shooting handguns at all until she found one that fit her hand because it was just a frustrating experience with virtually no reward. Once she found a handgun she liked the feel of, it's night and day. Her handgun is now her favourite of all, unseating even the beloved BLR. The difference was entirely in finding a comfortable gun. She is now looking into her Black Badge, something neither of us ever expected to happen.
The reason fit is important to emphasize to new shooters is exactly because of the subjectivity. It's an intangible so it can be easy to lose track of when the person hasn't spent a lot of time shooting. They're trying to wade through a flood of marketing garbage, kool-aid drinkers on forums, and gunshop salesmen hyping up features and model numbers, especially on the first handgun purchase. With advice like "my CZ fits my hand perfectly so you should buy one too", I would hope somebody can take that for what it is--a suggestion at best and a post-count bump at worst.
I've never seen genuine fit versus fundamentals discussion or advocacy. Maybe it's happened somewhere, but I'd hope that kind of advice ("don't worry about practice, just get a gun that fits your hand") would be delegated to the same pile as "try shooting with the gun pointing backwards for a good laugh". It's obviously bad advice. The two aren't exclusive. A better fitting gun just makes the whole experience of shooting more fun, intuitive, and easier. This is especially true if you're doing any kind of action shooting. I have shot IPSC courses with other people's handguns of various makes and it's not like guns I find less ergonomically pleasant make my hands melt, but the courses are a lot easier and more fun with the guns that fit me naturally.
When I buy a handgun, it's something I will be holding for hundreds of hours between practice dry, range practice, and matches. I'm also going to be effectively throwing thousands of dollars through it. I think it's well worth the sacrifice to have people think I'm a tool while I spend twenty minutes at the gun store counter groping a potential thousand-dollar plus purchase, much less one that's going to see so much use. If anything, I think it's crazy to not to try and take a gun for the most thorough test spin you can afford to. While it's true there's some level of compromise to be made unless you have a gun custom-built for you, but why sacrifice more comfort than you need to?
It's too bad that so many people don't have access to a large pistol shooting community where they live or gunstores that will let them toy with various makes and have to blindly order off the internet. Unfortunately, they're kind of stuck with the trial-and-error process, and I imagine that process can get pretty expensive.
God, if only more people would come to this realization. Over the last 20 years I've watched (and even done it myself at the start) so many people blow tens of thousands of dollars (ok maybe I didn't spend that much) on equipment in an effort to fix problems with their fundamentals. Every year in IPSC I've seen shooters show up at the range with new guns and gear and leave the match upset because they didn't do any better. Sure they may have done better in the odd practice they did when they got the new gun, but most of that was probably A) Increased interest in what they were doing, or B) Selective memory on previous outings and maybe even on this particular outing.
If people would spend $100 and take even one private lesson from a competent instructor they'd see much more massive improvement then they ever will from buying a new gun. It's only when you start to hit the top levels of any sport that gear really starts to play any importance (ignoring wildly crappy gear). Once a person masters, and I mean masters, the fundamentals, purchasing newer better things won't really help them at all.
If people would spend $100 and take even one private lesson from a competent instructor they'd see much more massive improvement then they ever will from buying a new gun. It's only when you start to hit the top levels of any sport that gear really starts to play any importance (ignoring wildly crappy gear). Once a person masters, and I mean masters, the fundamentals, purchasing newer better things won't really help them at all.
I'm certain David Sevigny, Doug Koenig, Tim Bradley, Tom Knapp, Jerry Miculek, et al did not pick their favourite firearm and make a proposition to that specific manufacturer based on their favourite gun. The contracts are struck based on other factors like compensation and benefits. They learn to work the tool. Within parameters based on physical limitations certain guns will always be measurably better for certain people. The intangibles of "feel" however are based on experience and sentimentality and perception, and can be changed by judicious practice and quality repetition.
EXACTLY.
All the agonizing over getting the "right" gun first time out is really misguided, IMO. I tell new shooters to limit their choices to something that has a decent record of quality and reliability, and then just pick whatever subjectively appeals to them most.
You can't really know what you want until you have some basis of experience and comparison.
Tongarirohiker
CGN Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
I have to say I'm happy for the civil conversation in here. Can we get everybody's votes on the poll I've just added? I'd love to see how people weigh the balance between fit and fundamentals, and whether formalized training has had any effect on your position. Cheers!
Tongarirohiker
CGN Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Just wanted to add a funny anecdote. I was at Cabelas last night checking out Sigs and buying some ammo. I asked the guy behind the counter which of the pistols he'd buy. He told me the P226 cause he doesn't have that one in his collection yet, and he thinks that most pistols shoot the same with slight quirks to each of them. At that point, one of his coworkers walked up and said that I shouldn't make a pistol purchase lightly as what works for me won't work for the next guy. It has to be the right fit.
Wish I had a comfortable chair and some popcorn for that talk
Wish I had a comfortable chair and some popcorn for that talk
The problem is in bold. For an untrained firearms owner, especially with handguns, what exactly are they practicing??? You don't know what you don't know. Being comfortable while you literally shoot in the dark with regards to fundamentals is a complete waste of time and money, but hey, if you're "comfortable" doing it than I guess its ok...
TDC
I am the new guy. I sent in my RPAL app on Monday. I went to Cabela's on Sunday to look at a P226 as I am thinking about getting that as my first handgun. I used to shoot many many years ago and as I near retirement, 62 next year, I want to take up shooting as one of my activities. As you all know I wasn't able to even touch the piece, let alone see how it fit my hand. Will it feel like the old Browning? Will it line up with my forearm like I think it should, I'll let you know in Jan when my RPAL arrives, LOL
Thanks for the excellent discussion and I'm really enjoying the forum, lurking in the background and soaking up your wisdom, carry on.
Thanks for the excellent discussion and I'm really enjoying the forum, lurking in the background and soaking up your wisdom, carry on.
Hate to burst your bubble, but the SIG won't feel anything like a HiPower. And I have to ask, why won't Cabela's allow you to handle the merchandise?
TDC
Ha, truth be told it's sooo long since I was active I wouldn't really know anyway. I am only in the first stages of making my choices regarding all my kit but thanks for the heads up TDC.
Cabelas won't let you touch anything unless you have a PAL (R), that's from Gerry at the gun counter here in Wpg.
If its a newer generation SIG it will have the slimmer grip profile which makes that first long heavy DA trigger pull much more manageable. As for Cabela's policy, I would have taken my business elsewhere and told them why and where they can stick it.
TDC
Shanks4300
Regular
- Location
- Winnipeg, mb
Even if you have your rpal, they won't take the trigger lock off so you can feel the trigger pull. I get it for a rimfire, but for everything else it's bs.
On topic I'm interested to see if it fits my hand with a good position for my trigger finger and lines up on my forearm for recoil control, weight and balance won't be an issue from what I understand. After that it's draw, sight alignment and sight picture. I'm sure I've left some things out but the golf analogy holds true IMHO, fundamentals are key. I just want a piece that feels right in my hand, if it's not the Sig then I'll keep looking. I can find out at a local range that offers try outs, It'll cost $100 I understand.
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Anyone sell airsoft in your area? Legit replicas and I'm sure they won't ask for a PAL to handle.
TDC
ETA: The poll is showing a rather obvious trend, anyone else see it??
I think we almost all can agree on "fit" coming in second on that poll. However your post # 76 you do show an importance to fit as well.
I also think that if somebody wants to buy a Chiappa Rhino cause they saw it in a movie, having people getting into the shooting sport without proper fundamentals (initially) is a good thing vs not trying at all. Heck, some of them may end up teaching you how it's done, ya never know.
