Flintlock lock styles... Help me pick.

MiltonBradly

MiltonBradly

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Hey all,

I'm making plans to build a .36 flintlock rifle and need to learn a bit about the different styles of locks. I have been surfing the Track of the Wolf website checking out the different lock styles but without a reference to size it's hard to know how big they are of if there is an advantage to any particular type.

Seeing as I'm planning a small bore squirrel rifle a brown bess lock is obviously going to be overkill. I see Siler locks on a number of guns and have read good reviews of them. What are the desirable features of there locks? I see rifles with fowler locks on them and others with pistol locks... After a while they all look the same...

Can anyone offer any advice on a lock style applicable for my application?

Thanks
MB
 
MiltonBradly said:
Hey all,

I'm making plans to build a .36 flintlock rifle and need to learn a bit about the different styles of locks. I have been surfing the Track of the Wolf website checking out the different lock styles but without a reference to size it's hard to know how big they are of if there is an advantage to any particular type.

Seeing as I'm planning a small bore squirrel rifle a brown bess lock is obviously going to be overkill. I see Siler locks on a number of guns and have read good reviews of them. What are the desirable features of there locks? I see rifles with fowler locks on them and others with pistol locks... After a while they all look the same...

Can anyone offer any advice on a lock style applicable for my application?

Thanks
MB
Click to expand...
Silers are very fine locks, as are L&R locks.
I prefer the Silers, just because!:D
If you look at the catalog, there are recommendations for some of theoir locks IIRC, a smaller lock obviously is what you need, something in the Bedford or Dickert style.
Cat
 
After a while the locks all look the same to me with the only real difference being the mounting plate shape...

Is there a functional difference in the geometry of the lock that makes one style superior for a particular application or are they all using a similar layout to get the maximum spark in the pan?

I gather the temper of the frizzen will be better suited to a particular type of flint and the overall size of the lock will relative to the scale of the gun?

I ask as I'm contemplating building my own lock and am trying to establish a basic pattern to work off of.

Thanks
MB
 
I like Siler locks and see nothing wrong with L&R ones. I would avoid the very small locks because they are awkward to work with and can only use very small flints. As to style, you need to look a variety of original guns or good replicas of same and use a lock whose shape is similar to the overall design of the gun that you are copying. Pecatonica makes kits which normally come with a lock that is appropriate to the model purchased. You might want to look at their website or catalogue.

cheers mooncoon
 
The descriptions of the locks in Track's catalogue suggest the type of firearm on which each would be appropriate. If you are interested in making a rifle that looks like an original, the correct style makes a difference.
If all you want is a shooter, then style is less important, and sparking ability is the primary concern. Any of the quality, brand name locks should do the job, provided they are appropriately sized for the barrel and rifle. For a small bore rifle, presumably with a fairly small diameter barrel, a lock 4 1/2" - 5" long would be about the right size.
When you say you want to make the lock yourself, are you referring to starting with a parts kit, or a pile of steel?
 
Siler locks are the way to go.
I have three flint locks fitted with Siler and all were incredibly fast. The 40 cal full stock poor mans long gun I had was fitted with a slightly different(in appearance) lock then my 50 cal fullstock. It had a tear drop shape to the back and had vertical scallops near the back as well. Both rock locks were tuned by the guy who built them and they fire up side down. I also had three Siler percussion locked guns and all were incredibly reliable.
Cheers
 
Nothing wrong with Silers. Used to import them for resale 35 odd years ago. Any decent flintlock will fire upside down. Have a Siler lock kit on the bench right now, along with most of the parts for a .45 long rifle. Stock is only a bandsawed walnut board with the barrel inlet.
If you look in the Track catalogue you will see that there are tricks to make the Silers even faster.
Parts availability is also a consideration. An established manufacturer is a good idea, whether finished lock or a kit. There is a lot more going on in a flintlock than a caplock. All a caplock has to do is smack the hammer firmly and squarely against the nipple. As mentionned, a flintlock can be tuned for better performance. Nothing more frustrating than an unpredictable flintlock.
 
tiriaq said:
... are you referring to starting with a parts kit, or a pile of steel?
Click to expand...

I was thinking of trying to build one from scratch... I'd like to do the entire gun from scratch but deep bore drilling the barrel would likely end up as a long and frustrating failure. I'd hate to spend hours of setup, tool fabrication and drilling only to find I had a uselessly wandering hole in what could have been a barrel blank... I don't have any particular style in mind, I figured I'd build a full stock .36 rifle with a 36-40" barrel and incorporate styling cues from whatever catches my eye. I Find that Jaeger rifles and English sporting guns seem to have a number of traits that I like...

I'll order a Track catalog right now... I didn't realize how much useful info was in there!

Thanks
MB
 
I rifled one barrel. Made a small boy's rifle for my son, many years ago. Having done one, lost interest in rifling more. It is possible to drill a 3 1/2' long hole, ream it and rifle it. It can even be done without a lathe. NMLRA sells (sold?) a book describing how to do it. But it would take REAL dedication.
It is possible to make a flintlock. It is possible to make a flintlock that sparks well enough to use. It is even possible to make a sparking flintlock that looks good. Back in the '60s, when I was young and enthusiastic, I made one. It didn't look good, and didn't spark well. Made a lot more locks since, but started with castings.
The Track catalogue, like the Brownells catalogue, is a great reference book.
 
Siler is the best lock in flint, L& R make a good percussion, but their frizzens have a tendency to be soft. 5Yrs ago athr Heffley Creek shoot there were 4 or 5 of us with dished out frizzens.
If you get a Track Cataloque, there illustrations or photos of locks are real size, if taht's any help.

Cheers nessy
 
...as a side note question...

could .375 round ball be patched up enough to fire reasonably well out of a .40 barrel? I already have molds and lots of .375 balls cast for my 1851 navy. It would be nice to be able to plink with the same balls...

MB
 
I have never rifled a barrel but I have made two or three flint locks from scratch as well as replacement parts for a number more. I think if you are starting out, you would be wise to buy a quality kit gun (figure $700 - $1000) including a quality production lock L&R or Chambers. Essentially use that gun to learn from when you chose to take on ever greater challenges. One of the hardest things I think is to get proportions correct, particularly if all you have ever seen is a TC Hawken or one of the various Italian production guns. My first gun was copied from a photo in a magazine and came out very slab sided because I had never seen an original up close (plus my lack of skill). I reworked the stock about 2 years later and then make a completely new stock several years after that. It still leaves much to be desired but is several jumps ahead of my first try

cheers mooncoon
 
MiltonBradly said:
...as a side note question...

could .375 round ball be patched up enough to fire reasonably well out of a .40 barrel? I already have molds and lots of .375 balls cast for my 1851 navy. It would be nice to be able to plink with the same balls...

MB
Click to expand...

Don't waste the time trying to make it work. I used, if memory serves me right. a .395 mold and used light denim or pillow ticking material. Used a 45 acp case as the powder measure for rolling gophers.
Cheers
 
mooncoon said:
I have never rifled a barrel but I have made two or three flint locks from scratch as well as replacement parts for a number more. I think if you are starting out, you would be wise to buy a quality kit gun (figure $700 - $1000) including a quality production lock L&R or Chambers. Essentially use that gun to learn from when you chose to take on ever greater challenges. One of the hardest things I think is to get proportions correct, particularly if all you have ever seen is a TC Hawken or one of the various Italian production guns. My first gun was copied from a photo in a magazine and came out very slab sided because I had never seen an original up close (plus my lack of skill). I reworked the stock about 2 years later and then make a completely new stock several years after that. It still leaves much to be desired but is several jumps ahead of my first try

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...
I think I'll take your advice and order a Siler lock kit along with a barrel and breach plug so that the "heart" of the gun is built off of a reliable base...

I think most of the fabrication projects I have undertaken have paralleled your first rifle build... I saw a picture of it in a magazine/online and built my own version without ever having a hands on experience... I have a hard tail Yamaha Chopper, Roman Lorica segmentata armor, Telecaster electric guitar, English longbow, Pool Que, Medieval Crossbow... All flights of fancy foolishly undertaken without adequate knowledge or resource :D

I humbly like to think I have a bit of an eye for proportions, I don't want to sound arrogant but I have come to realize that while I don't necessarily have an artists hand when it comes to drawing/painting I do have a bit of a sculptors eye/hand when metal and wood are concerned. And hey, If you don't jump in eyes closed and off a cliff you cant really say you "got your feet wet". ;)

MB
 
I would suggest Recreating the American Longrifle by Shumway then because it shows a number of cross sections through longrifle stocks. These cross sections are in many ways applicable to other guns

cheers mooncoon
 
Suggest buying your first flint lock and then deciding whether to make the subsequent ones. There is a ton of little details in the geometry and heat treating. Your 36 cal will be a "late flint period" gun and the lock should be late style such as the "Late Ketland", Durs Egg or equivalent. TOTW, Pecatonica and Muzzle Loader Builders Supply all can offer good advice. Good luck.
 
Check out Jim Chambers Flintlock Ltd., at flintlocks.com, under links. "Holiday Lake 4-h Center Flintlock Workshop". For a little more than the cost of a kit, they off a course on gunmaking, kit included. See Conner Prairie as well.
 
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