Flintock Questions?

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skokie

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Hi I am thinking about purchasing a Flintlock for deer and bear in Ontario. I have been looking at the new Lyman rifles in .50 cal. I like the Great Plains Hunter and the Trade Rifle. Any comments on Lymans, or 'modern' flintlocks in general are appreciated.
 
The Lyman rifles are good well built guns. You will probably get some comments from the "purists" that they are not authentic enough, but they are , like the Thompson center guns ( another excellent gun by the way) built in the spirit of traditional muzzle loaders. They beat an inline any day of the week (personal preference of course...).

I'd hunt with one.

Cheers. Steve.
 
Most of my muzzle loading friends use flintlocks. 3 have Lyman Trade rifles and are very pleased with their accuracy and reliability. 2 have Lyman Great Plains rifles and are also very happy with them. 4 have "Traditions" of various kinds and they have mixed feelings (there seems to be quality control issues) although my friend with the Traditions "Pennsylvania" style rifle won the last shoot I was at. 2 friends have Dixie flintlocks - one in .40 cal and one in .45 cal. They are both accurate but the .40 cal is really just a target/squirrel rifle. Several have custom made rifles which are very expensive but do not seem to shoot any better than the other good quality rifles.

The majority of guys/gals have Thompson/Center flintlock rifles of various kinds. The most accurate rifle at 100 yds that I have seen was a TC Hawken. My friend was breaking clay targets regularly at 100 yds. (once he got the range).

Most of the rifles I mentioned are .50 cal. but if you are going after bear I'd suggest you step up to the .54 cal.
 
One thing you might consider is that the Lyman trade rifle and the Great Plains rifle have different rate of twists in their rifling. The trade gun having a 1:48 and the plains being 1:66. This means that the trade gun will stabilize both conical s and round balls as it has a compromise twist rate while the plains is designed for round ball. Everyone will have their opinion on this and truth be told there is no difference up to 50 yards between conical s and round ball but after that the conical has it as far as killing power.

Cheers. Steve.
 
So, you are suggesting the trade gun because of the comprise rate of twist, a good idea. Out of curiosty, the Lyman Great plains Hunter has a 1 in 32" twist, would that be too much for round balls? Also in my research I have found a couple of mentions of using shot in a muzzleloader for short range small game or birds such as grouse, partridge, would that be a bad idea, of course I would wad it properly and compress the load well. Thanks.
 
if your going to get a lyman get one with a 1-60" twist for round ball its alot better then the 1-48"

i have a traditions deer hunter that once had a black Synthetic stock i trashed that one and made a maple stock for it it has a 1-48 witch does ok with round ball but the charge is a little lower then what can be used in the round ball twist
 
As to using shot in a rifled muzzle loader - it probably would work at very close range. I know guys who shoot .410 shotshells in their .444's and say that they kill grouse out to 7-10 yds.
 
skokie said:
Hi I am thinking about purchasing a Flintlock for deer and bear in Ontario. I have been looking at the new Lyman rifles in .50 cal. I like the Great Plains Hunter and the Trade Rifle. Any comments on Lymans, or 'modern' flintlocks in general are appreciated.
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Skogie, when it comes to flintlocks, frankly I think the first one every man should get is a big gnarly military musket with a smooth bore , sparky lock and a deep pan.....Lots of practice then you can keep anything firing.



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stevejones said:
One thing you might consider is that the Lyman trade rifle and the Great Plains rifle have different rate of twists in their rifling. The trade gun having a 1:48 and the plains being 1:66. This means that the trade gun will stabilize both conical s and round balls as it has a compromise twist rate while the plains is designed for round ball. Everyone will have their opinion on this and truth be told there is no difference up to 50 yards between conical s and round ball but after that the conical has it as far as killing power.

Cheers. Steve.
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It will SEMI stabilize both round ball and conicals but optimum accuracy for conicals will come from a 1:24>1:30
And round ball 1:66>1:72
A compromise twist rate is just another way of saying mediocre at best accuracy.
 
I had a gun with a 1:48 twist and found that it could do both jobs very well. It took some trial and error but it could produce acceptable accuracy for hunting conditions. You will have to try different ball and patch sizes (you have to do this with any gun...) and of course, charges of powder. I found mine could shoot Lee REAL bullets and sabots and in actual fact, produced my best 100 yard group with the sabots. Not sure why they worked so well, maybe the plastic cup base as they were tight going down the bore. I think if you are shooting with iron sights 100 yards should be your longest shot but you can use your own best judgment.

Cheers. Steve
 
go for a round ball gun you dont need conicals for any hunting with a flinter

with a 1-60 for .50 you will be able to hunt small game to moose with differnt powder charges
 
stevejones said:
I had a gun with a 1:48 twist and found that it could do both jobs very well. It took some trial and error but it could produce acceptable accuracy for hunting conditions. You will have to try different ball and patch sizes (you have to do this with any gun...) and of course, charges of powder. I found mine could shoot Lee REAL bullets and sabots and in actual fact, produced my best 100 yard group with the sabots. Not sure why they worked so well, maybe the plastic cup base as they were tight going down the bore. I think if you are shooting with iron sights 100 yards should be your longest shot but you can use your own best judgment.

Cheers. Steve
Click to expand...

The 1:48 twist may have been a closer approximation to the twist ratio required to stabilize the smaller diameter bullet coming out of the sabot.
 
skokie said:
So what your saying is I need two Guns? oh darn!
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No you don't NEED two guns but best resaults will be obtained from a properly stabilized ball/bullet. Long and short is that there is a reason they are called a COMPROMISE twist rate.
Look up the "Greenhill formula". It is a mathematical equation for figuring out the twist rates to stabilize projectiles.
 
Yesterday I purchased the Lyman Trade Gun from LeBaron. The fit and finish are good, there is one small section at the bottom point of the buttplate that the wood extends past the brass, so i will have to sand and refinish that. Other than that, it handles well, feels well balanced. I have not been able to fire it yet as Lebaron did not have any ffffg for priming nor did the have any roundballs, let you know how it goes.
 
Congratulations! You have purchased a well made and reliable gun that will get you on your way to black powder. Be warned, once it gets in the blood it will become an addiction! You can cut your cost of shooting by getting a mold and casting your own round balls. You can go to the local fabric shop for your patching material (no synthetics!) and for the cost of one package of pre-cut patches, buy enough patching material to shoot for a year. You may want to check out your local shooting and/or fish and game club to see if they have (and they will) a black powder group. You will find it very helpful and fun to come to a shoot.

Cheers. Steve.
 
The only reason that I keep 4F around is in case, perish the thought, someday I dryball. I don't notice any difference with 3F priming and only a small delay with 2F priming

cheers mooncoon
 
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