Floated barrel

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mike Crawford

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How important is it to have the barrel so you can put the dollar bill between the barrel and the stock .
I have a Winchester model 70 - 300 Win Mag - Classic stainless- with the synthetic stock and yuo can not put a bill under the barrel .. It seems to shoot just fine and has been the end for a number of moose for sure..
I was playing on "" you tube"" and was looking at floating barrel videos .. They say it improves accuracy ""ALOT""
I think I have seen and owned more rifles that would not take the bill under the barrel than would ..
And if it is very important why does new guns not come with floated barrels
 
I'd say you hit the nail on the head - if it's working leave it alone. I could see potential for POI changes perhaps with wood stocks that have contact - but in your case weather is probably not going to have any effects. Improving accuracy a lot seems might be relative for what rifle's meant for, ie hunter or target. Just my 2c's
 
Imo free floating will improve shot to shot consistency as the barrel heats up....every rifle I own shoots better free floated once you find the load.
 
Sometimes it makes no difference. Almost all the time, bedding and free floating makes my guns hold zero better. For that reason alone, I always do it, and sometimes it improves accuracy too. But I don't think you should count on it improving the precision of your rifle every time.
 
I have two rifles that are fully bedded and they are every bit as accurate as mine that have free floating barrels.
One rifle in particular is fully bedded at the factory to lend rigidity to the stock and in turn the stiffer stock supports the pencil thin barrel.
Personally, I was a firm believer in full floating barrels until playing with these two....
 
Many rifles come with a pressure point in the forend because it is easier for the factory to do that. Machine the stock or mold it... screw the metal in tight and it will bend to fit the stock or the stock will bend to fit the metal.

With a wood stock it often will shoot better with the barrel floated and the action bedded... a bill's clearance isn't enough though... underneath it should have more... point of impact is more consistent with varying shooting positions when the barrel floats.

Cheap plastic stocks are not worth doing anything to...
 
I'm a firm believer in a bedded action and with all normal hunting type barrel weights, pressure under the barrel at the front of the stock. In what I refer to as the glory days of shooting, the years following WW2, until about 1960, when there were so many shooters and so many shooting competitions, this was standard procedure for a normal weight rifle. It was considered that about six pounds was what it should take to lift the barrel from the pressure point.
Some years later Warren Page, who was probably the most famous shooter and experimenter ever, being long time shooting editor of Sports Afield and having won the International bench rest championship nine times, as well as long range competitions, wrote a book, "The accurate Rifle."
Here is what he states in the book about bedding.

Oops, this isn't what was supposed to come up

OK, got it



 
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If floating a barrel is better for accuracy how come so many guns are around that you can not put a bill under the barrel ..
If floating the barrel is a good thing why do they not come from the factory that way ..
They have to fit the stock .. Why not take out enough wood to allow the barrel to sit in the stock and the barrel and stock not touch .
 
Free floating, like plastic bedding and pillars were used as production shortcuts for "modern" manufacturing processes. Master stockmakers are now almost inexistant and anyways, so expensive today but in the days, with the skills and knowledge they had and the time they spent on bedding actions, they were able to make so close fits that the guns did shoot.
 
H4831, you had me interested in buying this book, then I looked for it and found this

Formats
Amazon Price New from Used from
Expand Hardcover -- CDN $240.83 CDN $69.99
Paperback -- CDN $1,675.40 CDN $913.94

A new book that cost more than a decent rifle...hmmm, me thinks I should check the library LOL
 
Kevan said:
One rifle in particular is fully bedded at the factory to lend rigidity to the stock
Click to expand...

Kevan if you're talking about your Forbes it's full-length bedded to help dampen the harmonics of the thin barrel, the stock is beaucoup stiff without needing any help from bedding compound. Over the years Mel has found his particular design with #2 contour and below groups tighter this way.

My own personal experience is that thin contour barrels like a pressure point in the barrel channel to eliminate whip and tighten groups.
If we are talking a Walnut stock instead of 'glass or kevlar that's another matter altogether and I will float them everytime. The little bit of accuracy you may lose is gained in temp stability and consistency.
 
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If your wood stock is not freefloating and with warping from time to time due to moisture how would one ever know how much pressure is on the barrel. It's not surprising why guys can't figure out why last time out their rifle shot great and now it is way out. IMO freefloating leaves your barrel un-touched and a more consistant shooting rifle.
Savage Arms beleive a freefloating barrel is an essential part of the equation to the accuracy of a rifle, they make accurate rifles..........I tend to agree.
 
Sun_and_Steel_77 said:
Kevan if you're talking about your Forbes it's full-length bedded to help dampen the harmonics of the thin barrel, the stock is beaucoup stiff without needing any help from bedding compound. Over the years Mel has found his particular design with #2 contour and below groups tighter this way.

My own personal experience is that thin contour barrels like a pressure point in the barrel channel to eliminate whip and tighten groups.
If we are talking a Walnut stock instead of 'glass or kevlar that's another matter altogether and I will float them everytime. The little bit of accuracy you may lose is gained in temp stability and consistency.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Sun & Steel, that's more or less what I meant to say, just didn't come out that way...
 
mike Crawford said:
What if you have a gun with a pencil barrel .. Does a stock that is not floated .. Help to SUPPORT the barrel
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Yes it offers support if it's full-length neutral bedded like a Forbes or NULA, although support isn't neccessarily the whole idea behind it,preventing oscillation or "whip" of the thin barrel is the goal. Don't even consider this method of bedding unless you have a very stiff and stable stock to begin with.
 
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If it aint broke, don't fix it. I bought a used rifle that I thought had too much up pressure in the forend. I reduced it so it blued in lightly. It shoots fine. If it shoots fine as is, leave it alone unless you need something to occupy your spare time.
 
mike Crawford said:
If floating a barrel is better for accuracy how come so many guns are around that you can not put a bill under the barrel ..
If floating the barrel is a good thing why do they not come from the factory that way ..
They have to fit the stock .. Why not take out enough wood to allow the barrel to sit in the stock and the barrel and stock not touch .
Click to expand...

mike Crawford said:
What if you have a gun with a pencil barrel .. Does a stock that is not floated .. Help to SUPPORT the barrel
Click to expand...

I am getting a feeling that you came into this conversation with a preconceived notion and want support for it.
First, free floating is done to create consistant, static, or perfectly repeated harmonics. This gives consistancy, which is the foremost ingredient to accuracy. I run all of my rifle freefloated, wood or plastic, fiberglass and graphite for this reason. Full bedding and forend pressure can do the exact same thing, but are more difficult to accomplish well. Melvin Forbes (NULA and Forbes Rifles) is probably one of the only folks most could name that still does this with all of his custom and production rifles. And they are hand fitted.

Now saying "if thats what is best why dont the factories do it" is a terrible arguement. Why doesn't GMC blue print every motor that leaves the factory as it gives longevity and more consistant and increased performance? Money. The cost of each vehicle would rise by $5000k and the average driver couldn't (that word was used deliberately) percieve the beneifit.
The same goes for your statement. The metal comes off the line at one end of the factory, and the stock another. The is a guy that takes the two and assembles them with a torque wrench and out the door it goes. Maybe they'l squirt a shot of hot glue like substance into the bearing area at the recoil lug so they can say "bedded" in the advertisement. They don't "fit" anything. If they did, your $900 CDL or $700 Savage would suddenly cost $150-$200 more. And frankly, you're not willing to pay for that.

The more expensive production rifles such as Sako, etc. do free float their barrels and take some time and that is part of why you pay $1800 for one.

As for the pencil barrel thing, the answer is in Melvin Forbes; products again. Yes, the barrel is supported positively when the stock is properly bedded to the barrel without pressure and evenly. If it isn't, that is support that is binding, and it is a negative thing.
 
No I did not come into the conversation with any preconceived notion ,, You point about the gun being at one end of the plant and the stock at the other is just what I was asking ..The stock is made to fit the gun .. or at least it does fit whether if it is by chance or luck or some one took the time to measure how much wood was required to be removed to allow the gun to fit into the stock..
I do have a preconceived notion that machines today are set to the ""ONE thousands of a inch"" type settings ..
If this notion is anywhere close then if the stock end of the plant ""SET'' the machine to remove the correct amount of wood..
Then the gun would fit into the stock and yuo would be able to put the bill under the barrel when you got the gun home .
If the stock touched the barrel then I am sure the machine could be set to remove an extra two thousand or three thousands off the required area . Once it was set .. It should produce the same results .. And each and every gun would have a stock that did not touch the barrel ..

I was asking a simple question .. If the barrel touches the stock does it help to remove some wood so the barrel does not touch.
And I would believe it would make a difference if you had a bull barrel or a pencil barrel .. So I asked if the wood was required to support a small barrel
 
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