Fluxing my lead pot - Its black

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VooDooMan

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Hey all.......

So I landed my self some free WW, Whoo hoo.
I grabbed my self some goodies from value village like a cast iron skillet and ladle and such.

Ok so I have my X lbs of WW in there, its melting and I am skimming the crap / dross off with my spoon, Also taking of the metal clips and steel WW's.

I was reading to add in a 1-2 tablespoon of wax in there, Noticed some guys are using the toilet rim wax ( the stuff you place under the toilets when seating them for the first time. Had a bunch from a reno I did in the shop, Cut a chunck and tossed her in.

I started scraping the sides and bottom, the wax flared up and it floated then eventually turned brown and then black, I was unable to skim that crap off.......Did I do some thing wrong?

Do you guys flux at all?
How does one remove that SKIN that's formed on the top when working with lead?

I made muffin pain ingots and will remelt 2-3 in a much smaller 4" diam pot that's about 4-5" deep so I can easily slip my ladle in and fill my .452 molds.

Any help is appreciate!
Thanks
 
Ok. I'm going to assume (hate that word) that you've skimmed 99% of the black burnt wax off and you're still getting a small amount of it forming on the top. No matter how much you skim off, there always seems to be a little bit more. It's ultra thin and it does manage to show up as 1mm to 4mm spots on the outside of your finished bullets. You scrape the sides and bottom of the pot time and time again....skim some more, but it just never ends. Would that be what you're talking about ???

To answer your question, no, you haven't done anything wrong. I get the same thing when I flux with wax and then cast with a ladle. Don't worry about it. It's just a bit of burnt wax. It's kind of like pouring a cap full of cooking oil on top of a pond. Give it 10 minutes and the entire pond is covered in that rainbow slick of oil. It's a billionth of an inch thick. It's so thin that it almost isn't there, but you can still see it. Same thing with the wax flakes. If having the small spots on your bullets really bothers you, you have 2 choices. One is to get a proper flux from a gun store that deals with casting stuff or from a welding shop.

I can't remember the name of the stuff I'm using and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to open the garage tonight and look :D. Wholesale Sports sells it. That will leave the lead in your pot looking like a chrome bumper.

The other thing you can do is pick yourself up a bottom pour pot. You don't even have to skim that much with them. Keeping the pot as clean as possible is always a good idea because excess gunk on the sides and bottom sometimes lets go and winds up where it shouldn't. The thing with the bottom pour units is, as the lead settles and the impurities and oxidized gunk eventually wind up on top. The lead you get out of the bottom is nice and clean.

Hope this helps.....

Dennis.
 
I used to live in Toronto, moved to Alberta almost 3 years ago. every time i go back to visit my folks, i want to come back as fast as i can! i don't miss that city at all.
 
Well then......Welcome to Alberta......I have a 10lb bottom pour and I flux very little at first when doing WW.....I usually just skim out the clips and then pour 1/2-1lb ingots.....Then when I get ready to do some good casting (like 3-4hrs//I am kinda picky with the weights and looks of the dropped rounds) I brush out the cold pot to clean out the scum so I can get the best pours...and btw do not skim off the scum BEFORE you flux as this is some of the metals that you need to fill out the moulds (tin is one, and as I have heard arsnic[in some varying amounts, small or big]is another. I cast for the .303 and .457's swaged down to .451(462grs after swaging and weighing every one) for my MZ.
 
is casting your own bullets really saving you much $$ ? I have a whole table dedicated to casting bullets, but haven't tried it yet, still waiting for the molds.

how much do you guys figure each round costs you to cast and reload? 223, 40, 45, 9mm ? also, doesn't the lead ruin your barrel after some time? anyone with experience that can answer this would be greatly appreciated!

thanks!
 
If you see casting and such as a hobby it saves quite a bit of cash. Say a five gallon pail of wheelweights cost $25 and you get 100 pounds of lead (it's more, but for easy math) it's sitting at 25 cents a pound. I just cast a bunch of 124 grain 9mm bullets......so you get 7000/124= 56 cast bullets for 25 cents.

Without doing the primer/powder/brass costs, you can still see it saves a few bucks. There is the time investment, but nobody pays me to nap or watch tv either.:p
 
damn. i purchased 50lbs of lead alloy, (lead, antimony, tin mix) - 140 bucks :( it's clean stuff, but for that price? lead isn't cheap anymore i guess.

where do you get your lead weights from? scrap yard?
 
I picked 5 pails from a Canadian Tire store a few years back. $25/pail. The last batch of lead I bought from a scrap dealer for $0.50/lb which is pretty steep. I've got enough now to last me the next 5 or 10 years, but everytime I walk into a garage, I always ask. In my experience, 95% of the time they tell you they already have somebody picking them up. 5% of the time, they'll sell them to you. I figure if I just keep collecting, I'll never run out.
 
florin79 said:
is casting your own bullets really saving you much $$ ? I have a whole table dedicated to casting bullets, but haven't tried it yet, still waiting for the molds.

how much do you guys figure each round costs you to cast and reload? 223, 40, 45, 9mm ? also, doesn't the lead ruin your barrel after some time? anyone with experience that can answer this would be greatly appreciated!

thanks!
Click to expand...

Like S.G.O.101 said. It's kind of a hobby of it's own that supplements my shooting hobby. The 180 grain Speer Spitzers I shoot in my 300 win mag are locally costing me just under $0.38 for each bullet. With cast...it's about half a cent for the lead....lets say there's half a cent of equipment wear for each bullet.....four cents for a gas check..... so we're going from 38 cents to 5 cents per projectile. Yea, it does save you a bit of money :D
 
5 cents per projectile? or the whole round? if that's for the round, then that's a HUGE saving!

i will be mostly reloading 40 and 45 ammo, for now.
 
I would say projectile, $25.....I guess I was one of the lucky ones....I don't have to pay for mine, but I do donate to the business "slush fund" when I do pick them up.......I have to cast out some 303's and I figure with the 40lbs @202-209gr per round...I have lots to tinker with(but only 900GC's, might need to go buy some).
 
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Your assumptions are correct.

Its also a little mixture of black stuff + brown burned wax.
I think I did it wrong, I scooped off my clips and black crap then fluxed. I should have fluxed during the agitation and black crap.

Did I screw up the composition of my ingots?

Can I toss my ingots back into the pan agian and fry it up with some more dirty WW's ?
This time fluxing the right way?

I planned to use a much smaller pot with my small ingots that SHOULD be clean. How do I go about melting that?
Do I still flux my clean lead wile making my bullets or just move away the skin at the top and ladle out a bit?

Thanks Dennis
Christian

blacksmithden said:
Ok. I'm going to assume (hate that word) that you've skimmed 99% of the black burnt wax off and you're still getting a small amount of it forming on the top. No matter how much you skim off, there always seems to be a little bit more. It's ultra thin and it does manage to show up as 1mm to 4mm spots on the outside of your finished bullets. You scrape the sides and bottom of the pot time and time again....skim some more, but it just never ends. Would that be what you're talking about ???

To answer your question, no, you haven't done anything wrong. I get the same thing when I flux with wax and then cast with a ladle. Don't worry about it. It's just a bit of burnt wax. It's kind of like pouring a cap full of cooking oil on top of a pond. Give it 10 minutes and the entire pond is covered in that rainbow slick of oil. It's a billionth of an inch thick. It's so thin that it almost isn't there, but you can still see it. Same thing with the wax flakes. If having the small spots on your bullets really bothers you, you have 2 choices. One is to get a proper flux from a gun store that deals with casting stuff or from a welding shop.

I can't remember the name of the stuff I'm using and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to open the garage tonight and look :D. Wholesale Sports sells it. That will leave the lead in your pot looking like a chrome bumper.

The other thing you can do is pick yourself up a bottom pour pot. You don't even have to skim that much with them. Keeping the pot as clean as possible is always a good idea because excess gunk on the sides and bottom sometimes lets go and winds up where it shouldn't. The thing with the bottom pour units is, as the lead settles and the impurities and oxidized gunk eventually wind up on top. The lead you get out of the bottom is nice and clean.

Hope this helps.....

Dennis.
Click to expand...
 
Yea I think I did an oopps there.
I fluxed after I removed the scum and clips.........I hope I didnt hurt the composition of the lead much.

Like you I will use a clean smaller pot for my clean ingots and cast into the mold from there.
Do you flux in the small pot ever hour or what is the protocol for that?!

Thanks

Drew_CarreyAB said:
Well then......Welcome to Alberta......I have a 10lb bottom pour and I flux very little at first when doing WW.....I usually just skim out the clips and then pour 1/2-1lb ingots.....Then when I get ready to do some good casting (like 3-4hrs//I am kinda picky with the weights and looks of the dropped rounds) I brush out the cold pot to clean out the scum so I can get the best pours...and btw do not skim off the scum BEFORE you flux as this is some of the metals that you need to fill out the moulds (tin is one, and as I have heard arsnic[in some varying amounts, small or big]is another. I cast for the .303 and .457's swaged down to .451(462grs after swaging and weighing every one) for my MZ.
Click to expand...
 
I flux when needed(FWIW lol) I also have old plumbers solder around and add some to the mix so I get other metals and chemicals in there......mostly the tin, if I happened to skim it off in the beginning.
 
VooDooMan said:
Your assumptions are correct.

Its also a little mixture of black stuff + brown burned wax.
I think I did it wrong, I scooped off my clips and black crap then fluxed. I should have fluxed during the agitation and black crap.

Did I screw up the composition of my ingots?

Can I toss my ingots back into the pan agian and fry it up with some more dirty WW's ?
This time fluxing the right way?

I planned to use a much smaller pot with my small ingots that SHOULD be clean. How do I go about melting that?
Do I still flux my clean lead wile making my bullets or just move away the skin at the top and ladle out a bit?

Thanks Dennis
Christian
Click to expand...

No, you haven't screwed anything up. The composition of your metal is just fine. Get yourself some proper flux. It comes in a plastic tub or jar in the powder form. When you put it in your pot, it'll melt, bubble, fizz, smoke, and eventually burn and turn black.......anyway....Put in 1/4 to 1/2 tea spoon into an 8 to 10 lb pot of lead and stir slowly but firmly. Just putting flux on top does almost nothing. You can do this with an old spoon or whatever you have on hand. Keep stirring, pushing down any flux that floats to the top. Keep scraping the sides and bottom of your pot as well. After a minute or so of that, let everything settle for about a minute. Scrape off the scum ....aka "dross".....that floats to the top. Let it sit for another minute and scrape off more....just keep repeating this until the bulk of what you see on the top of your pot is nice shinny lead. If you let the lead sit, a thin skin of oxidized lead will form on top and it will progressively get thicker. If you keep dipping into your pot with a ladle, it won't form as quickly. If you've been going at it for 15 minutes or so and haven't used up the lead in your pot, you might want to re-flux it, or just let it sit for a minute and skim off the new dross that forms from the lead oxidizing and the little bit of impurities that are still in there.

Tin will not separate from your lead....neither will the antimony. The tin helps the lead to harden up a very tiny bit. Most of the hardness is due to the antimony content. The tin's main function is to help the lead flow. You can add more tin if you want, but if you add enough, you'll actually dilute the mixture and cause your bullets to be softer than if you had used pure wheel weight alloy.

Again, you haven't screwed anything up. You've got some burnt wax in there, and nothing more. Wax will help to clean up your mixture a bit by burning and bonding with other impurities in your lead pot. When it does this, if makes bigger chunks that tend to float to the top a little easier. That's the black flakes. This isn't a serious problem even if you don't do anything about it. It just takes forever for it all to come floating to the top. Like I said before....get yourself some proper flux from a gun store or a welding shop. One other thing...you'll never get a 100 percent perfectly clean pot. It isn't going to hapen. You'll always have at least a tiny bit of scum forming around the edges. Don't panic....it's all good ;):)
 
You can also take that lead you bought for casting and mix it 50/50 with wheel weights to make your bullets a lot more consistent. Some fellows mix it in at 25%. It definitely smooths out the wheel weight mix.
 
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