FN Winchester Model 70 South Carolina v. Portugal

I have owned Push Feed Post 64 rigs, CRPF, CRF from USA and Portugal and they all shoot well. Most pleased with the current manufacturing products from SC and Portugal. I got over it and I just focus on putting that bullet where it needs to go. Years ago I would scoff at the Portugal stamp....since then I don’t bring my “reading glasses” to the deer stand with me. Problem solved.

Even more pleased with my latest two 308 rigs, a Featherweight and a FW Compact. Loved them both. They shot into half an inch when I did my part. Three shot groups only since they are not my PR rigs but lightnhunter babies.

Cheers, Barney

:wave:
 
Besides the overall quality being great, anyone who appreciates a slimmer trimmer rifle than the older Winchester 70 Sporter would like the new Portuguese made ones. Its almost a Featherweight with a cheekpiece. Thinner contoured stock especially up front, lighter profile barrel, it seems, especially towards the chamber end. They took quite a bit of bulk off of the rifle.

I kinda like the older, heavier version myself in something like 30-06 but its very nice, if you have walking to do or like a more nimble gun.
 
If they have corrected their error in machining the extractor groove on the bolt in the wrong place (just correct the program, dumb####s), they are an excellent rifle. If they continue to manufacture bolts with this flaw, they are no good.
 
Leeper said:
If they have corrected their error in machining the extractor groove on the bolt in the wrong place (just correct the program, dumb####s), they are an excellent rifle. If they continue to manufacture bolts with this flaw, they are no good.
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Three things #1 Could someone explain the above post a little better maybe a picture ?
#2 Is the Winchester Extreme Weather built in Portugal ?

#3 I heard that Winchester barrels are made by Bergara is the barrel on the Extreme made by them ?

I have another thread on the Extreme Weather so you could post on here or in that thread . I do not want to takeover the OP's thread ! If you have an Extreme Weather tell me all about it, Please !
Thank You !
Leavenworth
 
Leavenworth said:
Three things #1 Could someone explain the above post a little better maybe a picture ?
#2 Is the Winchester Extreme Weather built in Portugal ?

#3 I heard that Winchester barrels are made by Bergara is the barrel on the Extreme made by them ?

I have another thread on the Extreme Weather so you could post on here or in that thread . I do not want to takeover the OP's thread ! If you have an Extreme Weather tell me all about it, Please !
Thank You !
Leavenworth
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Sorry anyone know about this ?
Leavenworth
 
I cannot send a picture since I do not have a BACO Model 70 in the shop at this time. Essentially, the groove which locates the extractor claw is machined roghly .023" closer to the bolt face than it should be. This placement was consistent on a half-dozen samples I checked. This reduced the amount of primary extraction by the same amount (.023"). A call to BACO produced only a denial of any problem. It IS a problem and I would measure the bolt before I bought a Model 70. If the front of that groove is less than .073" behind the boltface, I'd pass.
 
Leeper said:
I cannot send a picture since I do not have a BACO Model 70 in the shop at this time. Essentially, the groove which locates the extractor claw is machined roghly .023" closer to the bolt face than it should be. This placement was consistent on a half-dozen samples I checked. This reduced the amount of primary extraction by the same amount (.023"). A call to BACO produced only a denial of any problem. It IS a problem and I would measure the bolt before I bought a Model 70. If the front of that groove is less than .073" behind the boltface, I'd pass.
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Leeper is Baco still currently making the Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather ? Is Baco the USA manufacturer and then they are assembled in Portugal .Sorry I think I get what you are saying but not positive . Maybe someone here can post a picture of the problem and show everyone what’s going on . The problem I have is I’m quite anal when purchasing items. Firearms even more I don’t want a lemon and Icertainly don’t want one that is unsafe !!Thank you for the reply !
 
I own a made in portagal m70, i really like it it shoots great. I think this is what hes talking about, the groove shoukd be further towards the red line

33my25z.png
 
To many, this might be construed as a minor problem because it still works. In worst cases though, when tolerances stack, you can end up with truly inadequate primary extraction along with feeding and ejection issues. It is also not easily correctable unless someone starts making extractors to compensate. I just don't like it when things are wrong; when the engineers should have been able to catch this in early production. It may well be that the issue has been corrected in recent production or maybe they still still have their heads buried where they can't see any problem.
This really bugs me because they are really a fine rifle in most respects and I like them.
 
383SB said:
I own a made in portagal m70, i really like it it shoots great. I think this is what hes talking about, the groove shoukd be further towards the red line

33my25z.png
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Thank You 383 for posting the picture . Very good of you ! Have you had any feeding ejection issues with yours and are you getting good groups ?
Leavenworth
 
Leeper said:
To many, this might be construed as a minor problem because it still works. In worst cases though, when tolerances stack, you can end up with truly inadequate primary extraction along with feeding and ejection issues. It is also not easily correctable unless someone starts making extractors to compensate. I just don't like it when things are wrong; when the engineers should have been able to catch this in early production. It may well be that the issue has been corrected in recent production or maybe they still still have their heads buried where they can't see any problem.
This really bugs me because they are really a fine rifle in most respects and I like them.
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Leeper Thank you for the added information !
Leavenworth
 
I have 3 of the FN M-70's and 1 pre 64 only because I wanted a 300 H&H, a good one came up for excellent price. All my M-70's work and function well. I bought a push feed M-70 in 1971 that I carried until 2004 that functioned flawlessly. Personally I don't fully buy all the hype around the CRF and the huge Mauser extractor. The push feed bolt was very simple, had few parts involved and easy to clean, and always worked without issue in all weather conditions and at all angles, as I used go out on the lawn and roll around and cycle rounds through at all conceivable positions trying to get it to malfunction and it never did. That being said in my opinion the newer M-70's are the best they ever put out the door when you look at the whole rifle package. The newer laser cut checkering is the Sh!ts but I guess you can't have everything.
Since I carried that push feed around for 30 + years I have a huge soft spot for M-70's. That's my rifle, and always will be. I have a very nice Kimber 8400 Classic select. Very nice rifle, accurate enough, well designed, had a few feeding issues but Kimber solved that. But it sits in the vault most falls as it just isn't a M-70. I do not have one with Portugal stamped on the barrel but I would not hesitate in buying one if a want arose. Very well made accurate rifle for the money in my humble opinion.
 
Leavenworth said:
Leeper is Baco still currently making the Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather ? Is Baco the USA manufacturer and then they are assembled in Portugal .Sorry I think I get what you are saying but not positive . Maybe someone here can post a picture of the problem and show everyone what’s going on . The problem I have is I’m quite anal when purchasing items. Firearms even more I don’t want a lemon and Icertainly don’t want one that is unsafe !!Thank you for the reply !
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Leper could you please answer to the first 2 sentences of my paragraph ?
Thank You !
 
383SB said:
I own a made in portagal m70, i really like it it shoots great. I think this is what hes talking about, the groove shoukd be further towards the red line

33my25z.png
Click to expand...

Okay if that’s what Leeper is talking about would that groove be larger gap or would the groove just be moved back so there is a thicker bolt face ?
Sorry I’m not sure where I would a tuall place a micrometer on it . Not used to measuring such small detailed things !
Thank You
 
I don't know where the parts are being made at this time but I think BACO is still doing the marketing. I am not a retailer. This issue is the distance between the claw of the extractor and the bolt face. This distance is determined by the location of the groove. The bolts of the rifles I have seen were machined incorrectly; that's all. Measure the distance from the front of the groove to the bolt face with calipers. Distance should be from .070 to .075
 
Leeper said:
I don't know where the parts are being made at this time but I think BACO is still doing the marketing. I am not a retailer. This issue is the distance between the claw of the extractor and the bolt face. This distance is determined by the location of the groove. The bolts of the rifles I have seen were machined incorrectly; that's all. Measure the distance from the front of the groove to the bolt face with calipers. Distance should be from .070 to .075
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To bad you could not make a short video about this and post it to show exactly how to measure this . Wink wink !
 
Philthy1 said:
I understand it. There is virtually nothing made in the USA and Canada anymore. Ever watch American Pickers? Anything American made is collectible now.
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American Pickers/collectible has nothing to do with it. It's a form of protectionism. "Made in America" = more jobs for Americans.

We would be far better off if we could produce more of our own goods here in Canada as well.
 
I own a few FN Win70's, including 2 Supergrades:
  • one in .30-06, made in South Carolina USA, in 2011
  • the other in 7mm08, made/assembled in Portugal, in 2016
Despite expected differences, due to the action lengths, both weigh exactly the same ... so I suspect the stocks are from different walnut varieties.
... Both have highly-figured walnut stocks, with 3D grain/tiger stripes, but
  • the one made in South Carolina USA has the Win. traditional dark brown walnut (American walnut?)
  • whereas the brown walnut of the rifle made/assembled in Portugal has, unusually for Win's, streaks/swirls of red grain (European walnut?)
Over the past 50 years, I have owned many Win's, from pre-war to current, and IMHO both of these rifles are the best ever ...
Indeed, in terms of fit and finish, both are crafted to the same very high standard (equivalent to my Sakos).

At this time I cannot compare these 2 Supergrades in terms of accuracy, because the made-in-Portugal rifle is still unfired ...
however, given that most of the Win. barrels are sold to the US military and must meet their standards, there is no reason to expect issues in that regard.

My verdict: the Made-in-Portugal Win M70 is a fine rifle and, at its current price point, represents excellent value for money.

-Dennis
 
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Mik123 said:
He explained it fairly well. Just measure the distance between the front of the groove and the bolt face near the extractor cut.
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Sorry but I guess I really don’t know what is an extractor cut .? To me it seems like Leeper is asking to to measure the thickness of the bolt face ahead of the groove ? I am not that savvy to using a caliber and bolt terminology .
Thanks
Arctic Lake
 
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