for a newbie, what caliber do you suggest.

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Penrx

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I am looking to get into precision shooting this year, and while I really want a .308 the local ranges only go out to about 300 yds. Keeping this in mind, would a .223 or a .204 be more suited for someone who has not shot a gun in years?

I like the .308 for the different number of loads available, is there the same variation in .223 and .204? I like the .204 as it is a fast load, but how is it at 300yds? Is it inherently accurate, more so than the .223?? I have seen quite a few SPS in .223 used lately and that makes me wonder, is the .223 a beginners round? Are you more likely to want to move up to the .308 if you get the .223?

I am looking at a bolt gun, obviously, either a Rem 700, or a Savage. I like the SPS tactical and the AAC but recently I have been looking at more and more Savages. I like the fact that the Savage has basically user changeable barrels. As the .204 and the .223 use the same bolt face (i believe this is true from looking at the Lyman reloading book, and the dimensions of the two rounds), could I purchase a .204 Savage and then a .223 barrel for it and just swap between the two? I believe that the .308 uses a larger bolt face and would not be viable to try and swap in and out like the other two.

Anyhow, please let me know your opinions on the three different calibers.

Cheers,
Sean
 
.22lr first, and I guarantee you'll love it. Then .223 or .204. Probably .223 since it's slightly easier to find
 
I'm a relative newbie. Been shooting a Remington 700p for about 6 months. I went with the .308 win because it has great availability of ammunition, can be used for hunting, and the recoil is very manageable. I'll admit, the first few times out the recoil seemed heavy but once I started using a proper shooting stance it is barely noticeable now.

If you hunt, I'd go with 308. If not, 223 is a great caliber for lower recoil and more importantly lower COST! Less cost = more shooting.

Some thoughts from a fellow newbie...
 
I picked up a .204 ruger for my get into precision shooting gun. A Savage m12 LRPV duel port. It shoots very tight groups. You don’t see your groups start to open up until 400-500 yards with the little 20cal. If your shooting in near windless conditions then 1/2 MOA is possible out to 600+ yards. A .223 or a .308 should all give you the same kind of accuracy out of a factory gun.

Pick up a CZ 452 Varmint in 22LR or a Savage. Put a high quality scope on it. Something like a Sightron SIII 6-24 or 8-32. Or what ever brand scope you choose if best for you. Shoot that for awhile. Then get a .223, drop your big scope on it and learn to reload.

That’s what I would do anyways.
 
If your range goes out to 300 yards, then a 308 would be fun. Plus you have a gun for longer shots if you ever want to travel to shoots at other ranges with longer targets. Anyhow, 300 yards with a 308, making tight groups sounds like a fun afternoon to me, but I'm just an average target shooter.
 
I don't have first hand experience with the .204, but I would say the .223 is a great starter caliber. My reasoning is that the most important thing to improve your shooting technique is rounds down range. .223 ammo is very economical and plentiful. Hence my nod over the .204. Honestly a .22lr is an even better beginner rifle as ammo is even cheaper and there is no kick to contend with ... Not that .223 has much either. The reason that recoil comes into the equation is that it can develop poor habits. For this reason I would give the nod to .223 over .308.

Now as for .223 being a beginner round, I would not call it such. It is an accepted caliber in competition matches, and with the appropriate twist rates, one can load longer heavy grain ammo which can go out to 600m and beyond. Get good at shooting .223 at a distance and you will have a great basis for a larger caliber if you choose.

IMHO, take a good look at the savage model 10's. Good twist rates, heavier barrels, accutrigger, and if you want to move up to .308, easy to sell, or swap out the barrel/bolt head, and mag follower and voila!!!

Good luck with your decision and have fun.
 
Whichever platform gets you out more with trigger time! Both cartridges allow a multitude of available bullets, powders, primers, and brass brands. Both calibers are straightforward to reload and have successful recipes; you will surprise yourself.

At least in the realm of factory loads (if you are not reloading yet), the .223 is cheaper to shoot and will get you out more. Hey, at 300m , you will surprise yourself at the small groups you will learn to shoot! :D

On this forum there are 6 savage lovers for every half a dozen M700 owners! :) They both have their advantages!

It's all good!

Cheers,
Barney
 
Pig4000 said:
If you haven't shot in years id say start with a .22.
Click to expand...

I agree, the greatest training round available. Very accurate and challenging to shoot at longer ranges. OP could put thousands of rounds downrange while learning to dope wind for a fraction of any centerfire round.


Blindeyes said:
.223 do not waste your money on a 22 lr. Boring and a waste of time.
Click to expand...

I take it you have never tried rimfire at 200yds? There is nothing boring about it and you learn to really shoot instead of have the calibre cover for bad habits. The fact that it can be done for vastly lower cost is icing on the cake.


Mark
 
If you are interested in precision shooting, you may find yourself at an F-class match. Shooting the .223 will allow you to enter the FTR division which only allows .308 or .223. With the .204 you would be restricted to the F open when tends to attract some pretty techy types of rifles. The .223 will provide you with match winning accuracy and precision.

cheers
 
I shoot FTR now (Open was a bit TOO much fun for me) 223/90gr bullets.

In the offseason, I will practise with a 22LR. If you think you know how to dope wind, climb behind some 22LR match ammo at 200 and 300yds and prove it.

For FTR, 22LR will simulate same ballistics at 100yds for 300m, 200yds for 500m, 300ish yds for 1000yds.

For Open, you just reduce the distances accordingly.

Shooting a rimfire in a light weight rifle off a harris is about as demanding a rifle as you will likely ever shoot for precision work. Body position, grip weight and angle, preload, follow through all have to be perfectly consistent if you want to keep that slug on target.

Then you need to account for the wind. Don't worry, it really does move around very similar to your 308 and 223.

I use a Sightron SIII 6-24 LRMOA which scales my reticle to what I shoot on my FTR (10-50 LRMOA). I shoot on full scale targets at the reduced yardages.

I shoot SK Rifle match which is around $7/box of 50 or 14 cents. Expensive rimfire but when you consider my 90gr bullet is close to 40cents ALONE (yes, you need to include ship and tax), rimfire is dirt cheap practise AND it is good practise.

There is nothing as good as practising full scale at the longest distances you will compete at. Wind is a weird thing.

BUT most of us don't have access to long ranges or the time to travel to them. Many competitors first practise rds is also sighter 1 of relay 1. Not going to do the best with no practise.

Not very glamorous but practise rarely is.

But practise is what gets those little shiny objects handed out at the end of a match.

YMMV.

Jerry
 
I am a Rem/rem clone type of shooter but in my eye the savage is the best bang four your buck0five
 
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