for all the semi reloading never see mention of CCI #34 primers ....
- Thread starter madashell
- Start date
Longshot338
CGN Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
Expensive and hard to find; at least in my case. I reload for my AR15 and M14. Both ha e floating firing pins. I am just careful with how I reload for them. I use a Primer Pocket Uniforming tool to deepen the pockets. All primers for rounds that go in my M14 or AR15 seat 0.004" below the rim.
Remington ran our American Lake City Army Ammunition Plant from 1941 until 1982 and used the 7 1/2 and 9 1/2 primers in our military ammunition long before the CCI No.34 and No.41 primers were invented. ATK now runs Lake City and uses the CCI No.34 and No.41 primers in the 5.56 and 7.62 ammunition.
My point being these CCI "mil-spec" primers were not used during WWII, Korea or Viet Nam and I use Remington primers without any problems. The military lightened the firing pins on the M14 and M16 rifles during the development and testing phase of these two rifles. With both rifles slam fires occurred when loading a single round without the magazine feeding and slowing down bolt velocity. And making the firing pins lighter greatly reduced the chance of having a slam fire with the primers then being used (Remington).
The newer CCI No.34 and No.41 primers are added insurance to help prevent slam fires, they have a thicker cup and a shorter anvil to make these primers less sensitive.
Below is more information on primers, it is recommended that the small rifle primers have a cup thickness of .025 for the AR15 rifle.
Below is a link from sksboards.com, I had my SKS go full auto and would recommend using the "mil-spec" if you do not modify the SKS firing pin.
CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/?topic=56422.0
Small Rifle Standard
CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup.
RWS 4033
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.
Small Rifle Magnum
CCI 450 - same thicker .025" cup as the BR4 and #41.
CCI #41 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers. .025" thick cup. Same primer mix as CCI 450.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify this primer as a Magnum, differing from other sources that classify it as a Standard. .025" cup thickness.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle Magnum SRM - hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds - #KVВ-5,56M.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle 223 SR223 - #KVB-223M "This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite."
Large Rifle Standard
CCI 200 - mild in brisance. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
CCI BR2 - same as the 200 but the match version. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
Federal 210 - medium brisance between CCI/Remington & Winchester. Do not use in semi-automatics.
Federal 210M - match version of the above primer. Do not use in semi-automatics.
Magtech PR-LR
Remington 9 ½ - mild in brisance.
RWS 5341
Winchester WLR - the hottest standard primer. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
Wolf/Tula Large Rifle LR #KVB-7 - all brass - "For Standard Rifle loads".
Wolf/Tula Large Rifle #KVB-7,62 - "For 7,62 NATO cartridges"
Wolf/Tula primers are used by noted match shooter David Tubbs who says: "Be sure they are seated into the case - if not they can be hard to ignite. Russian primers use a different sinoxide compound (closer to the European type), which, in my testing, consistently delivers better extreme spreads over Federal..." Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
Large Rifle Magnum
CCI 250
CCI #34 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo.
Federal 215 - original magnum primer
Remington 9 ½ M - mildest magnum primer.
RWS 5333
Winchester WLRM
Wolf/Tula Large Rifle Magnum LRM #KVB-7M - all brass - "For Magnum Rifle loads".
Make sure you read the entire link from SKS Boards, it will help you greatly in deciding which primers to use.
Also uniforming your primer pockets is a very good idea, our military ammunition is to have the primer seated .008 below the surface.
NOTE, the CCI No.34 and No.41 primers came about after ATK got the contract to produce ammunition at our American Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in 2002. Prior to this Remington and then Winchester ran Lake City and these CCI primers with their modified thicker cups and shorter anvils were never used.(or even invented yet) If I reloaded for a SKS or AK I would use Russian or these newer "Mil-spec" CCI primers for added insurance if the firing pins were not modified in these two rifles.
'Military-style semi-auto rifles seldom have firing pin retraction springs. If care is not used in assembling ammunition, a “slam-fire” can occur before the bolt locks. The military arsenals accomplish this using different techniques and components—including different primer sensitivity specifications—from their commercial counterparts. CCI makes rifle primers for commercial sale that matches military sensitivity specs that reduce the chance of a slam-fire when other factors go out of control*. If you’re reloading for a military semi-auto, look to CCI Military primers.
*Effective slam-fire prevention requires more than special primers. Headspace, chamber condition, firing pin shape and protrusion, bolt velocity, cartridge case condition, and other factors can affect slam-fire potential."
Mil-spec sensitivity
Initiator mix optimized for ball/spherical propellants
Available in large (No.34) and small (No. 41) rifle
Use the same data as CCI Magnum primers
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=30
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Yes, I saved the SKS forums page, will read it all. Have gone to their site countless times but never saw that one. Tis helps greatly to narrow down why primers to purchase for semi-auto and what not to.
Excellent and very useful information, thanks again bigedp51.
Excellent and very useful information, thanks again bigedp51.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
Yup, but then I've only been keeping an eye out for them for about a decade.
Maybe I just need to keep looking...
Question
Could any of you Canadians "PLEASE" measure the cup thickness on your Canadian made military 5.56 NATO cartridges or post the Canadian military requirements.
This is just my gut feeling but I always thought ATK/CCI sold our Government something they didn't need with these CCI No.34 and 41 primers after doing without them for so long.
In the book below I have, the shortcomings of the early M16 rifle and ammunition are discussed in great detail. And Remington and other ammunition manufactures said special primers like the CCI "mil-spec" primers were not needed. The firing pin was lightened and Remington who ran Lake City used the 7 1/2 primer in the 5.56.
I'm not saying these CCI "mil-spec" primers are hog wash, I'm just saying I didn't know we had a primer problem before CCI came out with the No.34 and 41 primers.
And how many of you have full auto AR15 rifles?
Could any of you Canadians "PLEASE" measure the cup thickness on your Canadian made military 5.56 NATO cartridges or post the Canadian military requirements.
This is just my gut feeling but I always thought ATK/CCI sold our Government something they didn't need with these CCI No.34 and 41 primers after doing without them for so long.
In the book below I have, the shortcomings of the early M16 rifle and ammunition are discussed in great detail. And Remington and other ammunition manufactures said special primers like the CCI "mil-spec" primers were not needed. The firing pin was lightened and Remington who ran Lake City used the 7 1/2 primer in the 5.56.
I'm not saying these CCI "mil-spec" primers are hog wash, I'm just saying I didn't know we had a primer problem before CCI came out with the No.34 and 41 primers.
And how many of you have full auto AR15 rifles?
rustywoodtc
Expired Business Member
- Location
- Mission, BC, CANADA
We generally have #34 & #41 primers in stock.
Currently waiting for new stock to arrive on the #41 but have #34 in stock
Drop us an email at orders.rustywood@shaw.ca
Currently waiting for new stock to arrive on the #41 but have #34 in stock
Drop us an email at orders.rustywood@shaw.ca
burnt_servo
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- right in the middle of b.c.
I look at it this way .
cycle some rounds through your semi auto .
is the firing denting the live primer ?
if so , how do you feel about that ?
would a primer made out of a harder material and less prone to denting just from cycling make you feel safer ?
I have never had a out of battery firing on my ag42's , but they both leave much larger dent than I am comfortable with in the Remington mag primers I normally use in everything.
I don't use these rifles unless I also use the cci primer .
cycle some rounds through your semi auto .
is the firing denting the live primer ?
if so , how do you feel about that ?
would a primer made out of a harder material and less prone to denting just from cycling make you feel safer ?
I have never had a out of battery firing on my ag42's , but they both leave much larger dent than I am comfortable with in the Remington mag primers I normally use in everything.
I don't use these rifles unless I also use the cci primer .
I've never used the CCI milspec primers and I've fired thousands of rounds through several semi's with military-style floating firing pins. I use regular CCI and Winchester primers.
That's not to say I think they're never required; I understand different rifles (even of the same make) can respond quite differently. I check my own rifles and have never owned one that left more than the smallest, almost invisible dimple in the primer when chambered. If I bought a rifle in the future that, when tested with a primed case with bullet but no powder, left a significant dimple, I would seriously consider ordering some CCI milspec primers.
I know several people who have "sticky" feeling firing pins in their semi's (SKS', Norc M14's); a couple of which have caused slam fires with Commie surplus ammo. Their rifles leave significant dimples in the primers when chambered; larger than I'd be comfortable with as per what burnt_servo said.
That's not to say I think they're never required; I understand different rifles (even of the same make) can respond quite differently. I check my own rifles and have never owned one that left more than the smallest, almost invisible dimple in the primer when chambered. If I bought a rifle in the future that, when tested with a primed case with bullet but no powder, left a significant dimple, I would seriously consider ordering some CCI milspec primers.
I know several people who have "sticky" feeling firing pins in their semi's (SKS', Norc M14's); a couple of which have caused slam fires with Commie surplus ammo. Their rifles leave significant dimples in the primers when chambered; larger than I'd be comfortable with as per what burnt_servo said.
