For my fuddy friends

[John Y Cannuck]

Now I've mentioned before that I used to hunt in a camp that was 98% Fudds.
At least one of them, would sight in a new rifle and consider it sighted in for life, regardless of what he shot out of it, he expected it to be dead on, year after year.
This guy would mix bullet weights, and brands, in the same magazine, and on purpose. Can't remember just exactly what his reasoning was.
Can't argue with success, and he did quite well. I'd say most of his shots were measured in feet, not yards though.

I was reminded of him day before yesterday, when I was out doing some shooting. I had loaded up some 165gr Hornady Interlocks, and some 165gr Hornady SSTs. Same OAL, same powder, same primers, and same brand case. All loaded on the same press, and at the same reloading session.
Both bullets are cannelured boat tail designs, just that the SST has a red tip, while the Interlock's tip is lead.

Groups were dead on for height, but a full 6" apart left to right at 100 yards.

Looking at the two bullets side by side, there is a tiny difference in bearing length, that's about it. Likely this is a barrel harmonics thing.

Keep that in mind if you are like my fuddy friend, sight in with what you'll be using.

 

[pescador]

i love fudd lore. had a guy tell me the other day his friend shot moose "all the time" at 400m with 30-30 lever action and open sights, the legend goes he would hold 4ft above its back, followed by the typical "dropped it right in his tracks everytime". the store clerk then asked him how far the store exit was in yards. he said 125yds the clerk informed him it was 60 lol. so it totally discredited his story.

 

[Potashminer]

I agree 100% about the "sight-in-with-what-you-will-be-using". I do not mix ammo on purpose, but my Dad sure did - loaded whatever he had left. Your 6" apart thing at 100 yards. Means nothing, if you are shooting a moose at 60 yards, as he would do - with his iron sights that I am sure had not been adjusted in decades. Many hunting discussions overlook that a kill zone for a deer is likely 8" to 10" diameter (heart/lung area) - will not make a great deal of difference where in that 8" to 10". So, is quite a generous "target" at 100 yards. Also, hunting shot - typically only one, cold bore shot - no sighting string, no warm up barrel, no "group" - just the one shot. Several things different than a target competition... But, again, I agree - sight in with what you are going to hunt with - give yourself the best chance of a good kill.

 

[the spank]

I agree totally with the sight in with what you are using and check your zero each season before the hunt starts. Just to bring to attention too, my rifle went for a topple this past fall after I leaned it against a tree to pick up a coyote I shot opening day from the deer stand. The rifle stopped when it got wedged between two tree trunks. Not even a hard hit but a voice in my head said take it to the range and check the zero again in case the zero got compromised. Well I've had rifles topple before and never had to rezero until this time. The zero went from bang on to 3" to the right and 1" low at 100 yards from that topple. I checked the scope mount to ensure it hadn't come loose then rezero'd and it paid off when I shot a deer at around 150 yards a few days later and the shot hit right where I was aiming and a week later the gf took her buck with it. I'll gladly burn some ammo to ensure its hitting where it should!

 

[MRP]

Oh them fudd frends. A 5'4" fudd frend of mine swears his steps a 1yd exactly,, lol.. he measures from the heal of one foot to the toe of the next. His 100 is a honest 60 at best.

 

[Eagleye]

I have seen some dramatic shifts in point of impact when bullets of a different design, but loaded with the same powder charge, etc
Actually had an interesting one that was strictly powder related. Not long ago, I was experimenting with a certain 130 grain bullet in
my 700CDL. With everything exactly alike, except for the powders, I fired a couple of groups. One powder printed exactly 2" to the
right of the other. Through the chrony, there was only 25 fps difference between the two. It's hard to understand why these things
occur, but we know they do. That is why it is important to check your POI with the bullet you will hunt with. Dave.

 

[powerbaitron]

Some lower end ammo will have POI shift between lots as well.

 

[Bigbubba]

Oh them fudd frends. A 5'4" fudd frend of mine swears his steps a 1yd exactly,, lol.. he measures from the heal of one foot to the toe of the next. His 100 is a honest 60 at best.

thats funny

 

[Tred]

So his estimate is 125 yrds = 60 yrd.

So by this logic this buddies 400m shot is at most 200 m coming more into reality.

 

[horseman2]

I thought this guy was different but "Fudd" would be an accurate description.
Fired one shot with his 300 WM and missed the paper. Wouldn't take my word for it and walked the 100 metres to see for himself.
Fired a second shot and it was 1" high.
Q". "So where is it hitting at 200"?
A: This is the 300 WM, the flattest shooting rifle made. 1" high at 100, 1" high at 200 and dead on at 300.
Then he fired one shot with his dad's gun and I have no idea where it went but "That was good enough for dad"!

 

[powerbaitron]

I tend to hunt alone or with people I trust alot.The same people who act like that have no problem flashing you with their muzzle or shooting towards a road ect...

 

[powerbaitron]

I went goose hunting with some friends of a friend and later found two BB dents in my truck. I can only assume one of them was chasing a wounded goos behind us and let a shell rip right at my vehicle parked 200 m away.

 

[pescador]

So his estimate is 125 yrds = 60 yrd.

So by this logic this buddies 400m shot is at most 200 m coming more into reality.

Exactly! everytime i hear someone brag about their 600yd shot on a deer i wonder if its a legit 600. or like 250yds. a lot of guys at the range miss the 300m gong from a sitting position shooting off a rest, (myself included, although i shoot iron sights in my defence), which tells me their effective range is not 300m. i can hit the 200m gong at will standing, so this is my effective hunting range, i have yet to see a guy knock the 600yd steel while standing.

 

[coyoteking]

I have seen some dramatic shifts in point of impact when bullets of a different design, but loaded with the same powder charge, etc
Actually had an interesting one that was strictly powder related. Not long ago, I was experimenting with a certain 130 grain bullet in
my 700CDL. With everything exactly alike, except for the powders, I fired a couple of groups. One powder printed exactly 2" to the
right of the other. Through the chrony, there was only 25 fps difference between the two. It's hard to understand why these things
occur, but we know they do. That is why it is important to check your POI with the bullet you will hunt with. Dave.

I’ve got an accurate load dialed in for my 223 with 69gr tipped SMK’s. It’s a .4 moa load and I’m sighted in 1” high at 100 yards. I recently purchased a box of 69gr hollow point SMKs, they measure the same to the ogive as the tipped bullets. Using the same charge of the same powder, at the same velocity, they print 1” to the right of the bullseye and group at .9 moa. I was surprised there would be that much difference between the two bullets.

 

[MRP]

This is the 300 WM, the flattest shooting rifle made. 1" high at 100, 1" high at 200 and dead on at 300.

Yup, on the moon.

 

[.22LRGUY]

The longer I'm at this, the more I realize how few shooters seem to realize that you need to zero your scope to the load you're planning on shooting. Matters more for hunters than target shooters (talking ethics) but it seems that most target shooters who practice with their gear have figured this out. The guys who pull the trigger once a year when they have a moose lined-up=seems to be a big question mark. lol

I once had a new 204R that took forever to work-up a load for. Figured it out eventually, but it wasn't the bullet I actually wanted for groundhog hunting. (39gr. SBKs) The 32gr. Hornady I wanted for the job would do about 3/4 MOA, and always landed 1" to the right of where my "pet" loads hit/where I had the scope zeroed. Out hunting one day, I was waiting-out a groundhog at about 110 yards when a smaller one popped-up about 50 yards-out. No idea I was there. I took the SBK out, put one of my 32-grainers in...and aimed about 3/4" to the left. Wow! lol

I sold that rifle and researched what 204s are supposed to shoot 32gr. bullets best. Happily, that process pointed me right towards the Tikka Varmint I was eyeballing anyway.

I told that story to a "fudd" buddy of mine, the idea of actually PICKING a rifle (barrel, twist, etc) BASED on the bullet I wanted to load/shoot, etc. The look on his face is about the same as the one I have when someone asks me if I like a silly sport like golf.

 

[Slugo]

I have a brother in-law that maintains he can hit a refrigerator at 1000yds with his open sight, Winchester 30-30 trapper. I'm sure he's done it, but I'm not sure he knows how to measure 1000 yards.

 

[time4t]

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[Suther]

Reminds me of a guy I know. Went to the range with him once, he put most of a box of Barnes ammo through his 300wm and was getting very frustrated that his groups were basically non existent. Started blaming the rifle - "scope must be off. I think it needs to be cleaned. Maybe my mounts are loose"... And talking the ear off the range staff the whole time too.

He asked me to try it, asked me to put three rounds through it. I said let me shoot two and see how that goes. Two shots, 3" high, slightly off center, and basically touching. Looks good to me I said! $50 down the drain for him though!

The real kicker was when he pulled the target. Once his target was in hand he starts pointing out his "decent" groups, but the "groups" were made up from different strings of shots! His groups were like 8" @100, but once the target was in hand he started acting like whatever random rounds were close to each other was a group he shot and not just a random assortment of holes!

 

[marshall]

thats funny

Mine is close, But half way there I forget the the damn count, than I am too tired to start again.
Suther , I hit the X ring off hand with my 4 in 38sp at the range, first and last shot. Can't get any better. Saves on ammo costs as well.