for those who want a semi in 308 ...
- Thread starter the radium king
- Start date
i think ultimately you want something that would take a 10-round pistol mag. that's why most of the current (or recent) offerings are difficult; famae, fnar, benelli, bar, etc. - all proprietary mags. and from what i gather, aftermarket magwells don't work here because the firearms are too narrow to fit. also, none of them seem designed so as to take a wider chassis system, so no luck there.
this is why i was kicking at existing systems that could be more easily modified. i mean, if they can get the sterling to fire 308, then can the wk-series of rifles take 308 pressures? if so then bolt face could be easily modified (already done for 450 bushmaster and 458 socom on ar platforms to take 308-sized rims) 7.62x39 barrel could be re-chambered, action could be extended just by removing material on the rear of the lower to allow the recoil plate to sit further back, and there is enough meat between the trigger and the magwell to fit a 308 magazine.
otherwise, let's get some substitutes happening; 6.5 grendel, 450 bushmaster, 458 socom, 50 beowulf. grendel and beowulf will work on a x39 bolt and magazine so just a barrel change. bushmaster and socam just need a bit of bolt work done along with barrel change. but can only find grendel barrels in canada currently (and i have one inbound from ibi ...)? probably also need larger gas blocks for the bigger diameter barrels (which is why i'm waiting for the di 180's to improve before hunting down a barrel ...).
this is why i was kicking at existing systems that could be more easily modified. i mean, if they can get the sterling to fire 308, then can the wk-series of rifles take 308 pressures? if so then bolt face could be easily modified (already done for 450 bushmaster and 458 socom on ar platforms to take 308-sized rims) 7.62x39 barrel could be re-chambered, action could be extended just by removing material on the rear of the lower to allow the recoil plate to sit further back, and there is enough meat between the trigger and the magwell to fit a 308 magazine.
otherwise, let's get some substitutes happening; 6.5 grendel, 450 bushmaster, 458 socom, 50 beowulf. grendel and beowulf will work on a x39 bolt and magazine so just a barrel change. bushmaster and socam just need a bit of bolt work done along with barrel change. but can only find grendel barrels in canada currently (and i have one inbound from ibi ...)? probably also need larger gas blocks for the bigger diameter barrels (which is why i'm waiting for the di 180's to improve before hunting down a barrel ...).
What 10 round mags though? They banned the XCR and AR15. Therefore there is no readily available handgun that takes the mag, which means they can't be classified as handgun magazines anymore.
Obviously they have yet to announce this fact, but it's clearly spelled out in the law. I suspect once the amnesty actually expires they'll start talking about this.
No commonly available handgun? Then its not a pistol mag. By banning the AR15, AR15 pistols are no longer commonly available in Canada. Same for the XCR. This is also why we can't get AK47 Pistol mags for 10 rounds of fun in a T81 or M&M.
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While a 10 round pistol mag would be fun, I would be willing to settle for a platform that was limited to 5 round proprietary mags. Of all the current offerings I believe only the APC and Tavor 7's can accept pistol mags? Correct me if I am wrong. And like Suther mentioned, the legality of LAR/Pistol mags could easily change in the near future.
You're right though in that working with what we have is probably the path of least resistance. I am however unsure if a new FRT/classification would be required if the modifications you mention were made to an existing AR180 platform to allow for .308 cartridges. Ultimately I want a semi auto that I can hunt big game with at a reasonable cost, I am unfamiliar with 6.5 Grendel and 450 Bushmaster but I believe they are used in AR's to hunt deer and boar stateside?
A quick google search shows that 6.5 Grendel prices seem fairly in line with .308 but 450 Bushmaster is more expensive. I'm also guessing that the availability of both rounds is nowhere as good as .308.
I would argue their legality likely already has changed - the day the OIC dropped the pistols were no longer commonly available. By the wording of the relevant regulations, if there is no commonly available pistol then the magazines must be limited to 5. I'm actually surprised this line of thinking hasn't caught more traction (Ian Runkle did mention it in one of his early OiC videos but I haven't seen much talk of it since)
Also from the Regs:
Capable of holding more than 5, and is designed/manufactured for a handgun not commonly available in Canada? Thats a prohibited device.
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handofzeus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Trout Creekish Ontario.
Semi-auto .308? There's the Winchester Model 100. Been around forever. Only 4 shots and zero tacticool factor I know but, there's your semi .308.
And they're surprisingly affordable too! Although I hear parts can be hard to come by if something breaks.
I've heard the argument before but until the RCMP makes a concrete statement on them I think the majority of owners will continue to perceive them as legal and continue on using them. Considering that they are still widely available at retail stores (big and small) and that ranges still allow them leads me to believe that they are still legal.
I'm not suggesting people should stop using them or anything. I'm simply pointing out that the AR and XCR pistol mags are in a questionable place legally right now, and thus I am not surprised about the lack of novel rifle designs intended to use them.
My guess is they haven't made any moves on them because the amnesty is still in place and they'd rather get the buyback out of the way and THEN drop the hammer on the mags so there is no push to have the mags included in the buyback... But thats purely speculation.
or remington 740/742/7400. again, proprietary mags.
or a converted garand.
winchester 100 apparently can be modified to take m14 pattern mags, but requires modification of the magazine so grey area of the law.
you can shopping list all the semi 308's you want (or find one of the many other threads on the subject here); i'm looking at canadian made, mass-produced; similar to how the wk180 came to be.
re xcr pistol mags, until i can't buy them in the stores or they are officially banned (like the 1022 or beowulf mags) then i am happy to continue to use them. i don't think there are any "commonly available" ar15 pistols in canada now either so same logic should apply to 556 pistol mags yet they are still in use everywhere. regardless, it would be nice to have at least one thread on this forum without t turning into another gun ban discussion; if mr wolverine thought like that there would be a lot fewer options for canadians right now. for the sake of this conversation, let's just say sr25 pattern magazines regardless of capacity (although getting a semi to run on aics mags would open up the possibility of 20-round magazines ...).
or a converted garand.
winchester 100 apparently can be modified to take m14 pattern mags, but requires modification of the magazine so grey area of the law.
you can shopping list all the semi 308's you want (or find one of the many other threads on the subject here); i'm looking at canadian made, mass-produced; similar to how the wk180 came to be.
re xcr pistol mags, until i can't buy them in the stores or they are officially banned (like the 1022 or beowulf mags) then i am happy to continue to use them. i don't think there are any "commonly available" ar15 pistols in canada now either so same logic should apply to 556 pistol mags yet they are still in use everywhere. regardless, it would be nice to have at least one thread on this forum without t turning into another gun ban discussion; if mr wolverine thought like that there would be a lot fewer options for canadians right now. for the sake of this conversation, let's just say sr25 pattern magazines regardless of capacity (although getting a semi to run on aics mags would open up the possibility of 20-round magazines ...).
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M14 pattern mags are already limited to 5, with the exception of the AIA Enfield magazines that just *happen* to fit, but I haven't seen those on the market in a long ass time?
As for modifying the magazine to fit a gun other than what it was designed for, I don't think thats a grey area, I think thats straight up illegal?
Everybody with their modified AK mags to fit in their T-81’s are sweating rn.
But honestly I doubt modifying a magazine to fit into another gun, as long as if it’s pinned to 5, or legal round count in some other way, would be illegal. In that case pretty much every gun owner I know has a ton of illegal mags sitting in their storage.
Everyone you know has been modifying magazines to fit into guns that they weren't designed for?
I'm almost certain that it's illegal to modify a magazine to fit a different gun. I'll see if I can find the legalese later.
Erickson5006
Regular
- Location
- Bonnyville Alberta
ATRS has a good "Modern" styled rifle, but costs are high and they're fighting government in court, so consider it a donation to a worthy cause when you try and explain that credit card purchase to the mrs.
Who cares
We should all care about what is and isn't legal.
However, upon further looking/asking it appears modifying a magazine to fit a different firearm is only illegal if the capacity changes - eg you can't modify a pistol mag to fit a semi auto long gun, because by modifying the pistol magazine to fit a semi auto long gun you are turning it into a semi auto long gun magazine, which in turn must be pinned to 5. Leaving it at a capacity of 10 would put you in possession of a prohibited device.
This helps explain the sks magazine conversions - you arent modifying the magazine, so the fact the magazine increases the capacity to 10 is still legal.
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