For those with "CITADEL" marked Egyptian Martini rifles, I need your help

Nabs

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Hello CGN,

Recently, I acquired a Turkish Mauser Model 1893 that has certainly "been there" and "done that". One of the interesting features that this Turkish rifle still has is a brass disc, about the size of one that you would find on a Martini Henry or a Lee Enfield. It is screwed into the right side of the butt stock with a brass screw. There is not inletting for the disc into the wood, only a light impression on the surface of the wood where the disc rests on the stock after being secured by the screw.

On both sides of the disc are Arabic numerals and letters. I originally thought these were Ottoman empire unit markings but I was perplexed as there is no written or photographic record of the Ottoman's marking their Mausers in this fashion. I did some more research online and in my current selection of books but I came up empty handed, with the exception of some references to painted on rack numbers in Arabic numerals. A current posting on gun boards has, so far, turned up no new leads or ideas as to the origin of this stock disc.

After consulting with a good friend of mine, who is more versed in British arms then I am, he suggested this disc may have, at one time, belonged to a Martini-Henry rifle that went to Egypt as the markings on the disc looked very similar to ones he had seen. Sure enough, a good search for one of these Martini examples turned up one at IMA that was "CITADEL" marked and has a brass disc on the right side of the butt stock with markings almost identical to mine. He also suggested that since the Ottoman's had been at war with the British forces in the Sinai peninsula and along the Suez canal in 1915, this disc may have come from an Egyptian issued Martini that was captured in this area of conflict and this disc may have been applied to this rifle as a "war souvenir" of sorts. The story seems to fit the facts but I wish to try to locate reference material in order to figure this disc out and, perhaps, piece together it's story along with the Mauser rifle if possible.

That brings me to my call for aid. If you happen to own a Martini Henry rifle, perhaps one marked to "CITADEL" and it has a brass disc with similar markings, would you be able to confirm if this disc is similar or not ? If so, I would be very curious to hear what these markings mean and, perhaps, where they might indicate service at one point. I have attached pictures below of the disc as it sits on the rifle and it removed, showing the markings on the opposite side along with the IMA Citadel Martini image. I appreciate any assistance that can be provided.

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IMA Original image:

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1st pic 67 over misr (Egypt)
2nd pic misr 64 over 109

Alternate theory Cdn collector took butt disc off citadel Martini and put on Mauser cause it looked cool.
 
Hi Green,

Thanks for the reply. Without evidence to the contrary, your theory of collector adding it to the stock at some time is also possible.

That aside, is this disc actually off a Citadel martini ?
 
Here's the brass disk on my Citadel. The markings on this rifle led the previous owner to think it was a Kyhber pass fake and I got it for $300.00. Quite a good shooter. Appears to be an original Henry Rifle barrel Co. conversion.

milsurpo
 
Hello milsurpo,

Thank you for sharing, that is just the sort of evidence I was looking for to verify the origin of the disc that is present on my Turk. The screw head and position look very similar to mine, I wonder if the brass screw is similar in both cases ?

With the translation of the script, provided by green earlier, it seems these discs indicate possible rack numbers at one point or another ?
 
Probably a disc from an Egyptian Citadel Martini or the Egyptians also used the SMLE which had the same marking disc.
 
I've been told that the Sultanate of Egypt was a "semi-autonomous" part of the Ottoman Empire until 1914. The characters are arabic, I believe. Nabs- does your '93 still have all the neat script on the receiver? I have one that was not refitted and upgraded and still has the mag cutoff. Unfortunately it is missing the rear sight leaf and it looks like I'll probably never find one to replace it.

milsurpo
 
Hey guys,

I also read that Egypt was semi autonomous, being able to manage themselves but under the influence of the Sultanate. My 1893 still has the script on the left side of the receiver and the magazine well is still intact, however, she was refurbished in 1936 at Ankara. It is interesting to see this disc still with the rifle all these years as these rifles were refurbished to different levels depending on finances and resources at the time.

She certainly has a lot of history behind her and I can't wait to take her out to the range.

Milsurpo, have you had a look at Numrich recently ? They have a large selection of Turkish '93 parts that may be able to help you restore your '93. I would also be interested in seeing some pictures as non-refurb Turkish rifles are hard to come by. Does your still have the Tughra on the top of the receiver ?
 
Nabs: Unfortunately the rear sight leaves that I've found are all for later updated versions. I'll post some photos if I can find them!

milsurpo
 
Mine.
303 British, bought from Marstar years ago.

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Same image, tightly cropped

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Left side receiver markings
 
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Tootall, thanks for sharing your Citadel. I think we can safely say the disc that is present on my 1893 Turk came from one of these Martini rifles.

I can't but admire the wood shrinkage and erosion, especially about the butt plate. It is similar to my 1893 Turk though not to same degree.
 
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