Form 6nia

[Canuck44]

When you buy the hunting license it's important to know when the hunting license is valid from and until.

For example, the Alaska small game license runs like the calendar year, but the North Dakota starts around like April or something. So if you want to get the form 6 off and approved in time for summer, then the Alaska hunting licence is a better way to go because you can submit the application early January.

If you were to buy the North Dakota license this time of year, the form 6 may very well have expired by the time you get the form 6 because the hunting season is over.

Bottom line is that you want to be mindful to buy the hunting license at the beginning of the hunting fiscal year and then apply for the form 6 so you don't get cut short on the period the form 6 is valid.

An important point is the people who sell the licenses are not about to inform you if you buy it a week before the license expires, so you better know to ask.

They got me once, but it wont happen again.

Have you read any of this thread. Just asking because YOU DO NOT NEED A HUNTING LICENSE OR AN INVITE TO A SHOOT TO APPLY FOR A FORM 6. You will need one or the other when you hit the border along with a Form 6 but that is part 2.

I am not sure I would want to be travelling to Florida with an Alaskan Hunting license but that is a matter for the holder and the US Border folks.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Garand]

Idaho and Montana. Free states only for me

Idaho & Montana are great places to shoot matches, I've also enjoyed shooting in Wyoming and Arizona. Very level headed people in those 4 states.

 

[RePete]

Have you read any of this thread. Just asking because YOU DO NOT NEED A HUNTING LICENSE OR AN INVITE TO A SHOOT TO APPLY FOR A FORM 6. You will need one or the other when you hit the border along with a Form 6 but that is part 2.

I am not sure I would want to be travelling to Florida with an Alaskan Hunting license but that is a matter for the holder and the US Border folks.

Take Care

Bob

The above applies if you don't need a visa to enter the US, if you do, then you need an invite. As I stated before.

 

[Canuck44]

Pete my comment was not directed at your post. Canadians don`t require a Visa to enter the US so that portion of their regulations don`t apply to us.

You have had more experience than most travelling to the US. I have often wondered what would happen to a Canadian driving through New York with firearms and an Alaskan Hunting License in his pocket if he got stopped.

Take Care

Bob

 

[RePete]

To take a firearm into the US, you still need a personal invite, even for hunting.

Previously, you needed an invite or hunting license just to get the form 6NIA, you still had to have an invite everytime you took a firearm into the US.

 

[hercster]

I thought it was because technically canadians are not non-immigrant aliens...but that could easily be connected to the VISA requirements.

Canadian visitors are "non-immigrant aliens" by definition. I don't know why the US recinded the requirement for a hunting license or invitation but it happened in 2012. For some reason they haven't change the F6NIA (NIA =Non Immigrant Alien) I called the ATF office to get reassurance when going to Texas last year as I do every year for the winter. They told me to ignore that requirement to which I replied that I would mark it N/A for not applicable on my application. I did that again this year.

However I do have a concern regarding the OP's reason for going south being to compete in NY state. Four or five years ago I was denied entry and turned back to Canada on the basis that I would be committing a felony by being in possession of handguns without a NY state permit. Despite having full ATF documentation and a reference to a feature of the law that allows one to pass through the state of NY without stopping. I'm a member of all the US shooting organizations and have my membership cards in a binder I use to show authorities wherever I may be. None of this worked with that officer and I back tracked and crossed in Michigan which is what I do every year now. The crossing was the one into Buffalo (Tonawanda).

If I were to want to comply with the old requirements I would tend to get a hunting license as it's not date specific and can be reused. The North Dakota license is easy to get on line and costs just $17 for the added sense of security.

I would like to hear from shooters who compete in NY State as I know many do.

 

[RePete]

I compete in NY State, in fact I'll be there again (4 times this years so far) in 5 weeks for the NY State IDPA Championships and in PA in 7 weeks for the Beast of the East IDPA match in 7 weeks.

You are not breaking any laws. But, if you travel with your mag loaded, make sure they only have 7rds in them when in NY, but you can fill them to capacity once on the range and then don't forget to strip them out before you leave the range. If you don't, then you are committing a felony (NY State only).

 

[hercster]

I compete in NY State, in fact I'll be there again (4 times this years so far) in 5 weeks for the NY State IDPA Championships and in PA in 7 weeks for the Beast of the East IDPA match in 7 weeks.

You are not breaking any laws. But, if you travel with your mag loaded, make sure they only have 7rds in them when in NY, but you can fill them to capacity once on the range and then don't forget to strip them out before you leave the range. If you don't, then you are committing a felony (NY State only).

Doing the research as best as I can without being a firearms lawyer, I pretty much knew that the officer and whomever he consulted with in the office where we were in "secondary" were out to lunch. My "arguments fell on deaf ears. He had our passports in hand and wouldn't return them to us until we were escorted back to the frontier. This was tricky as I was hauling my 40 foot RV and packed for a full winter in Texas. I also wondered why a federal border officer would get involved in NY State law.

I'm now going to write the NY State officials whomever they may be, for an explanation in writing as it applies to us. The documents I already have seem to support our passing through NY legally but laws and interpretations have changed.

When I got to the Canadian examination area on the way back that time, I saw a senior Canadian Border officer who was a shooter himself and who competed regularly in NY. He couldn't understand what happened and why. My experience has been that a lot depends on the person you get at the border by luck of the draw. I've had the misfortune of hitting some real "stars" in the last few years on the way south. The problem is that they hold all the cards and one way or another can make your day miserable. Just last year, one of them badgered my wife until she was in tears. She is 70 and in poor health but that didn't stop the guy. He was insulting, rude, arrogant and ignorant all in the same package.

 

[RePete]

As soon as the officer started to get insulting, that's when you ask for his supervisor, being courteous and respectful and explain the situation.

 

[maka]

I compete in NY State, in fact I'll be there again (4 times this years so far) in 5 weeks for the NY State IDPA Championships and in PA in 7 weeks for the Beast of the East IDPA match in 7 weeks.

You are not breaking any laws. But, if you travel with your mag loaded, make sure they only have 7rds in them when in NY, but you can fill them to capacity once on the range and then don't forget to strip them out before you leave the range. If you don't, then you are committing a felony (NY State only).

I was actually told that you are breaking law. You cannot shoot a handgun in NY state without a handgun permit (by Law). I know lots of guys & gals do but I was told by several people on the phone last week that it is illegal.

 

[RePete]

I was actually told that you are breaking law. You cannot shoot a handgun in NY state without a handgun permit (by Law). I know lots of guys & gals do but I was told by several people on the phone last week that it is illegal.

You have been mis-informed. The form 6NIA and the invite is your permit. I've been doing it for over 7 years and have spoken many times with the NY State Police and an ATFE Agent in Syracuse.

There are exeptions for competitions in the State law. You can find them on the State Police web site.

The Colonel of the State Police announced, 2 or 3 weeks ago, that they aren't going to look or follow up on the mag cap law.

 

[hercster]

This is not to doubt you Mr. RePete but this situation isn't totally clear. There are several situations I would like to see clarified in writing as I have been told that simple possession in NY without a handgun is a felony. Read back to my example of being denied entry to the US on those grounds.

There are a few variations one of which is your situation where you are entering to compete by invitation at a fixed location and a fixed time. The law used to read and maybe still does that the competition must be within 48 hours of your entry.

I had a copy of a letter somewhere in my files by the State Attorney that relates to an American's right to pass through the state of NY without stopping while in possession of handguns without a NY permit. However, I'm not sure that applies to Canadians on a 6NIA where the origin location is not in the US. This letter is several years old and I'm not sure if the most recent legislation trumps it or not.

Then there is my situation where I would be entering NY but with a destination beyond that state and staying in the US for a prolonged period. I compete many times at multiple locations in Texas. The exact matches may or may not be known depending on club schedules. However I'm a paid member in two clubs and shoot more than once a week in various disciplines. I could also be returning home via NY without any intention of competing while in the state.

I have memberships in USPSA, IDPA, Steel Challenge and GunNation. I'm on my way home now and once settled will try to find out who the authority is exactly and get written clarification. With all due respect, I would be careful about using a State Police source unless it's a ranking officer and in writing. The laws are so complex that it's difficult to find an authoritative source.

Gord

 

[P0WERWAGON]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A

US law. applies to you with a form6

The best way to travel through NY or any state that has restriction is to carry a cop
y of T
itle 18
-
Part 1
-
Chapter 44 926A o
f the federal code with you. Some law enf
orcement may not know the law.
DO keep the
firearm in a locked box. Keep ammo in another locked box. No amm
o in Magazines or speed loaders i
n the
trunk or if no trunk as far bac
k in the vehicle as possible in a locked box.
By NY Law if you are traveling
across the state and can legally possess the firearm where you started and where you are going you can
transport it as above. But if you stop in NY and spend the night in a motel/
hotel/camp ground etc you are in
violation of NY law and can be arrested if found with a firearm. Stopping for gas and food would most likely
be OK but this is not a given in NY.

 

[hercster]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A

US law. applies to you with a form6

Thanks Mr. Power,

That is the text I carry with me. I also quoted it to the border people the time I was denied entry. One of the responses was " You have NO rights in the US". The other sightly unclear point relates to the departure or origin point in the trip not being in the US. Our PAL certainly applies to the Canadian point of departure but counts for nothing the instant you cross the line.

I've learned not to depend on the border authorities to know the law except in their narrow jurisdiction.

On that particular trip, all the misadventure cost me was time and stress as my wife was very upset. Once they escorted me back to the frontier I kept going and took an extra 90 minutes to cross to a border point into Michigan which I've used ever since.

Part of the problem is that if an official isn't 100% sure of something they bump it up to the next level and you start over with your "argument". That can take hours or worse. In the case of an LEO, this can mean detention and then waiting on a judge. Maybe I'm a little paranoid after my experiences but I would still like to have a specific ruling in writing.

I'll try to get that and will share the result with the membership here.

 

[Canuck223]

I was actually told that you are breaking law. You cannot shoot a handgun in NY state without a handgun permit (by Law). I know lots of guys & gals do but I was told by several people on the phone last week that it is illegal.

There is an exemption to the requirement for a handgun permit. Out of state competitors generally can be present in the state for the 24 (or 48?) hours prior to and following a match in full compliance with the law.

 

[Canuck223]

Thanks Mr. Power,



I've learned not to depend on the border authorities to know the law except in their narrow jurisdiction.

Part of the problem is that if an official isn't 100% sure of something they bump it up to the next level and you start over with your "argument". That can take hours or worse. In the case of an LEO, this can mean detention and then waiting on a judge. Maybe I'm a little paranoid after my experiences but I would still like to have a specific ruling in writing.

I'll try to get that and will share the result with the membership here.

To be fair, put yourself in their shoes for a moment. (Or as our CBSA if that helps)

There are more pieces of legislation, policy, procedure in play than any one person can possibly be expected to have committed to memory.

We cross the border knowing that the rules are complicated, and we live with them every day.
The smart move is to make sure we have all the documentation we could possibly need printed out and available, including footnotes so they can find the material themselves.

The last time I had to do the paperwork dance at customs, I had 100k of component bullets with me. I had the invoice for the declared value. I also had the reference to the appropriate document showing that there was no limit on component bullets.

When I landed at primary inspection, the guy took a quick poke at his terminal and started to say I could only bring in 200 rounds.
I just smiled, suggested that he was looking at the amount non-resident hunters could bring, and quoted the correct reference for him.
He was willing to listen, found the right page, and sent me in to pay the GST.

 

[hercster]

I hear you and get your point without argument at all. To your point, I've assembled a binder that I travel with. It's organized by source and includes relevant sections from the ATF and others including 18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms with appropriate sections highlighted. My strategy has always been to make the border official's jobs on both sides of the border as easy as possible. I'm always polite, respectful and friendly if I sense the latter will help.

All my life I've tried to follow the old Boy Scout motto of being prepared. I've been crossing into the US for about 55 years. Sadly it used to be easier and less stressful; 911 changed a lot and so I understand the need for more diligence. In recent years, I've had quite a few unpleasant experiences going south. When I get the welcome that used to be standard, I'm pleasantly surprised but keep my expectations reasonable and conduct myself as if it were a business transaction which in a sense it is.

For what it's worth, every trip also involves dealing with the CBSA people on the way home. I've never had a negative experience with them; they have always been professional and polite. Last year, I was subjected to a thorough search including my RV by a team of four agents and including a dog. There was a delay but even that time was fun as I got a chance to chat with several of the younger officers that had just passed their firearms courses. Based on my experience, don't expect to get anything by way of guns and accessories past these people. I have a very carefully hidden safe that has stored guns but five or so years ago. The dog found it in seconds from the residual scent. Anything that comes within feet of a guns discharge picks up enough scent to be easily found by the dogs. It was an interesting experience.

To be fair, put yourself in their shoes for a moment. (Or as our CBSA if that helps)

There are more pieces of legislation, policy, procedure in play than any one person can possibly be expected to have committed to memory.

We cross the border knowing that the rules are complicated, and we live with them every day.
The smart move is to make sure we have all the documentation we could possibly need printed out and available, including footnotes so they can find the material themselves.

The last time I had to do the paperwork dance at customs, I had 100k of component bullets with me. I had the invoice for the declared value. I also had the reference to the appropriate document showing that there was no limit on component bullets.

When I landed at primary inspection, the guy took a quick poke at his terminal and started to say I could only bring in 200 rounds.
I just smiled, suggested that he was looking at the amount non-resident hunters could bring, and quoted the correct reference for him.
He was willing to listen, found the right page, and sent me in to pay the GST.

 

[hercster]

Firearms Documention

I've referred to a binder I use for in my travels in the US. A member just asked for details so I responded to him. Here is a copy of my text for use by anyone that's interested. If it can be improved, I'd be happy to hear about it.

The first thing I did was put all my relevant ID on the glass of my scanner/copier. These included my RPAL, Driver's license, Health Card, Truck Registration, RV registration and related insurance docs. I also made a page for all my gun memberships including USPSA, IPSC, IDPA, Steel Challenge and 3Gun Nation.

This gives anyone with an interest just one or two pages instead of fumbling through a bunch of cards. I think it also demonstrates that I'm a serious and well organized shooter and not a casual "shopper".

The next sheet protected page or pages are my ATF form 6. I included the page that shows that "Non Immigrant Aliens" are allowed to be in possession of firearms and the conditions.

Then comes a page with all my gun registration documents and my Canadian Customs form Y-38 that lists the scopes, NR shotgun and other items like my .22 conversion slides for my 1911. It's a good idea to get this form from the Export office before you cross the border. It proves to the US guys that you brought those items with you and does the same for the Canadian CBSA people on your return.

Then comes my ATT to the borders and my LATT.

I made a copy of the 18 US code and 926A- Interstate transportation of firearms as follows:

U.S. Code› Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 44 › § 926A
18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms
Current through Pub. L. 113-100. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
• US Code
• Notes
• Updates
• Authorities (CFR)

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.


I copied the FAQ pages from the ATF online web site and highlighted what I thought were relevant Q and A sections

Then I included any important emails I've exchanged with the authorities regarding requirements that have been clarified.

This isn't overkill IMO as the binder is useful with LEO's and the Border people of both countries. Since I travel through six states on the way to Texas every year, the effort was worthwhile for me. The binder is always in my truck and so is there wherever I might need it.

I hope this helps.

Gord

 

[P0WERWAGON]

i love having binders too. especially when coming home. i give it to the CBSA guy, and if starts asking questions, and just thumbing through the pages, i know he knows nothing. always makes me smile when they act tough and you know it is a bluff.

 

[hercster]

i love having binders too. especially when coming home. i give it to the CBSA guy, and if starts asking questions, and just thumbing through the pages, i know he knows nothing. always makes me smile when they act tough and you know it is a bluff.

It's interesting you say that. I breezed through this year with a female agent I thought was a bit of a rookie. When I declared my guns, I handed her the binder. She asked if she needed "the whole binder". My response was that everything she needed to know was there. She glanced at it briefly and waved me through. I told my wife that it seemed she was dealing with this situation for the first time.

Last year when I was being thoroughly searched, I tried to chat with the senior guy who was running the show. It was pretty obvious that he knew relatively little as well. The younger people including two females were really keen to learn more about IPSC and IDPA as they had just finished their firearms training and enjoyed the shooting.

I try to make the whole situation as smooth and pleasant as possible. A lot depends on the personalities you happen to draw and it can go both ways. Being well organised sends the message that you aren't going to be intimidated.