Forming 300 Whisper / Blackout

Suputin

Suputin

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Seeing as we got screwed by the US with regard to purchasing formed 300 Whisper / Blackout brass I thought it would be nice to have a thread where people could exchange ideas on quick and easy ways to make brass for our Whisper / Blackout rifles.

The 300 Blackout Talk forum has a thread dedicated to trimming 223 brass which has lots of good ideas.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=78446

I did a few experiments and came up with the following:

I have a set of original Hornady JDJ 300 Whisper dies and my size die has enough internal room to size a 223 case while leaving the decapping rod in place which makes things a bit easier. I'm not sure if the Lee and Redding dies will be able to do this.

Once the case has been through the sizing die the only thing needed is to trim to length. However this is a bit of a PIA as there is a fair bit of length to be taken off.

One idea I got from the 300 Blk forum is to use a mill or drill press as a power aid to trimming. The original suggestion was to purchase a Forester Power Trimmer tool which is specifically designed for use with a drill press.

However I happened to have a Lee Precision hand case trimmer that can be set up in a mill or drill press the same way as the Forester but the Lee tool costs about 1/3 of the Forester.

I will post pics to show how this is done.
 
I've been testing the modified Dillon 550 tool head and 300AAC Trim/Form die from Brad's Warehouse. I'll post some pics when I get it all sorted out.

Cheers
 
Ohno said:
Couldn't you use 221 Fireball brass necked up? It is available from board sponsers.
Click to expand...

You can, however, most .221FB brass is ridiculously expensive and you can easily lose cases in the neck up process. Sometimes, depending on your dies and technique, the failure rate can be substantial - thus expensive.

I shall be watching this thread with great interest.
 
You can, however, most .221FB brass is ridiculously expensive and you can easily lose cases in the neck up process. Sometimes, depending on your dies and technique, the failure rate can be substantial - thus expensive.
Click to expand...

I only ever lost 2 or 3 per hundred which isn't a problem. What is a problem is the $65 per hundred cost of new brass. :O

I have 3 or 4 hundred cases made from 221 FB brass but am working on easier methods to form brass from 223 cases as I have thousands of those and they are super cheap and easy to find.


The initial forming of the brass is super easy to do. I run mine through the sizing die and get a very long necked 300 case. The only issue is the quickest and easiest method to trim the case to length.

300Fireball6.jpg



I had a Lee Precision handheld case trimmer that I thought might work fairly well in a drill press or mill. It does work fine with two caveats. The trimmer leaves a considerable bur that has to be removed by hand. But the thing that slows production down the most is that the case holder tends to wind up so tightly that it is impossible to loosen by hand. So I had to keep a pair of pliers handy to release each trimmed case.

300Fireball7.jpg



I think the Forster Power Case Trimmer will probably end up being the best and most financially viable method. It has a special case retention method that allows quick in and out of the case which seems to be the key. Sinclair Intl sells this tool for about $65 which is the best price I have seen on it so far.

PT1010_Case_Trimmer_Power_Case.jpg
 
I've been testing the modified Dillon 550 tool head and 300AAC Trim/Form die from Brad's Warehouse. I'll post some pics when I get it all sorted out.
Click to expand...

Does that die require the Dillon power trimmer or does it somehow trim the case as it is pushed into the die? A friend has one of those power trimmers and he has lots of complaints about it not to mention it is quite an expensive option by the time it is all set up to trim brass.
 
While researching the topic of forming 223 brass to 300 Whisper brass I found on the SSK website there is a warning regarding case neck thickness (this could be solved by outside neck turning), but JD Jones also warns about the thickness/taper of the brass in the neck from shoulder to mouth.
He states that 300 Whisper should only be formed from 221 brass.

I have had a true 300 Whisper Contender barrel for some time and a set of original Hornady Whisper dies, but have never gotten around to reloading for this. Don't have any 221 brass yet, and not sure of a source with the way everything is so scarce these days.

I am ignorant on the topic of US export regs, but can Hornady 300 Whisper brass/cartridges not be exported out of the US?

Thanks,
CD
 
cdill said:
While researching the topic of forming 223 brass to 300 Whisper brass I found on the SSK website there is a warning regarding case neck thickness (this could be solved by outside neck turning), but JD Jones also warns about the thickness/taper of the brass in the neck from shoulder to mouth.
He states that 300 Whisper should only be formed from 221 brass.
Click to expand...

There is a possibility of ending up with too thick of a neck from the use of 223 brass however in practice this rarely occurs. I have thousands of rounds of 300 BLK cases made from 223 Rem and I never turn necks. This brass works fine in all three of my 300 BLk rifles.
 
Suputin said:
There is a possibility of ending up with too thick of a neck from the use of 223 brass however in practice this rarely occurs. I have thousands of rounds of 300 BLK cases made from 223 Rem and I never turn necks. This brass works fine in all three of my 300 BLk rifles.
Click to expand...

I am trying to get a handle on this before I actually try to work with case forming. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the 300 Whisper from SSK was never intended to be formed from 223 brass and so has much closer tolerances versus the 300 ACC Blk that was intended to be formed from 223 brass and thus has allowances in the chamber dimensions for this. The 300 ACC has no connection to SSK and JDJ Jones and is an entirely different case. Am I correct here?

I guess the best alternative would be to get a gunsmith to make a cast of my chamber in the Contender barrel and then know for sure what sort of allowance for opening of the neck brass there is to allow the bullet to escape.

I have also read on other forums that you may end up with donuts in the case neck when using 223 brass that can be solved using a reamer.

All this makes me hesitate, but intend to experiment eventually......when I find the time.

Thanks for your info.
CD
 
Suputin said:
There is a possibility of ending up with too thick of a neck from the use of 223 brass however in practice this rarely occurs. I have thousands of rounds of 300 BLK cases made from 223 Rem and I never turn necks. This brass works fine in all three of my 300 BLk rifles.
Click to expand...

i have ran into this when loading cast bullets that are 310 in diam.
i was using IVI brass and other military brass which ended up with a neck way to thick that the round would not chamber.

i resolved that by using R.P brass and WW brass. neck thickness was thinner and still had space for a 310 cast bullet, no problem chambering.
 
The Blackout is virtually the same as the Whisper. I have rifles chambered in both and I use original SSK dies to reload all of them. All the difference between the two is in the throat. There is no reason not to use either 221 or 223 brass other than the 221 cases cost about 10x as much.
 
I cut my 223 brass off at the base of the shoulder and then run them into the full length form die. I've never had neck thickness issues with brass formed from 223. I also have hundreds of brass formed from 221 as well and losses were very low. I lucked out though and got my 221 brass for free from a fellow who doesn't reload! This is a classy little cartridge with lots of potential!
 
I have formed about 2K of 300 Blackout cases and shot them out of my 300 whisper AR, 300 Blk AR and Rem 700 in 300Blk.

I had a couple rounds fail to feed in my 300 Blk AR that were formed from Military cases (FNM) which ended up having necks that were too thick.

I think the neck was was 0.017-0.018" for the Military formed brass, where as commercial brass as 0.014-0.015".

So i now only use commercial brass to form Blkout and have never had an issue.

Like Sputin, I use 300 whisper dies (Redding)

Never had to anneal either.

My "understanding" is 300 Blk is a SAAMI spec cartridge. There is an internet rumor that there is more free boar in the 300 Blk chamber so you can load hotter for supersonic rounds without pressure spikes.

GC
 
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Suputin said:
I think the Forster Power Case Trimmer will probably end up being the best and most financially viable method. It has a special case retention method that allows quick in and out of the case which seems to be the key. Sinclair Intl sells this tool for about $65 which is the best price I have seen on it so far.

PT1010_Case_Trimmer_Power_Case.jpg
Click to expand...

I have one of the Forester power case trimmer, and they are the real answer. No longer use it, if anyone wants to buy it.

Ted
 
Gas Can said:
INever had to anneal either.

My "understanding" is 300 Blk is a SAAMI spec cartridge. There is an internet rumor that there is more free boar in the 300 Blk chamber so you can load hotter for supersonic rounds without pressure spikes.
Click to expand...

Freebore is all in the throat and not in the chamber itself. Greater freebore allows higher pressures because the bullet can move forward further before fully engaging the lands. High velocity rounds like the Weatherby Magnums were notorious for having loads of freebore. More freebore is normally not helpful for accuracy though.
 
I see little crow gunworks makes the "Worlds finest Trimmer" in this caliber. It is the best trimmer I have ever had. I use it in .223.
 
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