forstner ultra seating die inconsistent

krprice84

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I've been trying to use this forstner seating die I got from a vendor on here recently, to no avail. It is frustrating me to the point that I have gone back to using the Lee seater for now.... that bad....


What is happening is, I cannot maintain a fixed seating depth with it. Doesn't matter what I try. The charge I am using is 24.4 grains of H4895 in an IVI 5.56 case (resized then fire formed, body die sized and neck sized). The press is the Redding t7 turret press (I understand that some people say that a turret isn't as accurate or precise, this thing is built like a tank and seems to seat consistently with my Lee die). I am seating Berger 70 grain vld with it still, as I'd like to shoot through them before I move on to the Sierra 69gr bullets.


I am finding that the cartridge base to ogive measurement can vary from about 1.887 to 1.897 inches, measured with the Hornady attachment to my caliper. This variation is confirmed with my rcbs precision Mic, though of course it doesn't give the measurement in real numbers, the readout varies by the same amount.


I have tried everything from pulling the spring out, to screwing down the die slightly so that theshell holder barely contacts the die, I have tried polishing the seating stem with 5 and 1 micron sandpaper (this was a good idea anyways as it was leaving rings on my bullets), I just can't get this. On top of this, the seating depth seems to also vary with the amount of pressure I put down, #even though the press is over centre at the end of the stroke anyways and doesn't push farther.

The Lee die holds about 1.91 to 1.94 which is better but still not great. But to me that says it likely isn't the bullets (again haven't tried the smk yet, though the vmax seat fine enough on the Lee, within less than a thou either way generally.

I know guys swear by these dies but I'm about to throw mine out the window
 
The majority of these type problems can happen with "any" seating die, and I have two Forster benchrest seating dies. The problem is the bullets shape at the tip doesn't match the seating stem, the cure is to send the stem and two bullets back to Forster and they will make the stem a custom fit to that bullet. "BUT" the next "problem" may be with your Sierra 69gr bullets not fitting the new "custom" seating stem. The only problem I have is with plastic tip bullets and short seating stem that compress the plastic tip and screw up the OAL consistency. I have heard of reloaders using aluminium foil, epoxy and other gimmicks to make their own "custom" fit seating stem. So again this happens with all seating dies and "bullets" the do not fit the "generic" shape of the seating stem.

If your seating die was a woman's bra you would just have the wrong "cup size" and lack proper support.



I find visual aids very helpful in times like this. :evil: And your cup your runneth over.
 
make sure the volume of powder isn't pushing the bullets back out - i have seen this with big doses of Varget in 223's and long bullets when seated to fit mag.
 
I very much appreciate the visual aid! That is....very helpful...ahem...to my reloading venture...ahem

In the interest of fully analyzing things....she is gorgeous.

As for the dies (that's what I was asking about, wasn't it? Kind of got lost for a moment.....

I just don't understand why the shape affects the ability to seat consistently. From my understanding, the seating stem may not contact at exactly the spot that is ideal, but since it is the same point on every one of the same style bullet, then how come that introduces problems?

The only thing I can think of is that it isn't really seating off of the ogive, but off of a spot closer to the tip where the shape isn't as perfectly controlled as the ogive. Then the second part of the issue that I can imagine is that the measuring device is not perfectly measuring off the ogive but at a point closer to the tip as well. It seems it is closer to perfect however, as when I measure the base of the bullet to the ogive using the Hornady attachment on my caliper, I can clearly see that they are within about half a thou, and that could be variance introduced by my hand pressure on the calipers.....

Regardless of that, my next question here is, assuming that the variance comes from the die seating off the curved part and not the ogive (the ogive being the meeting point of the curved portion and the bearing surface), then how does making a custom plug out of epoxy cure anything? To me that would make it worse, as now you have a plug that is formed to the entire curved surface, and the next bullet you seat clearly won't match that perfectly.

I think my solution may me to carefully machine out the seating plug on the stem to be more of a hollow cylinder instead of bullet shaped. It makes more sense to me for it to seat off of the place as close to the ogive as humanly possible without making the seater walls so thin that they are flimsy....thoughts?
 
bigedP51 nailed it... (LOL)

And, your guess is correct. The seater may or may not contact the actual ogive at the caliber diameter... it depends on the profile of the bullet. They vary, of course.

The theory in using epoxy or some other method is to make a 'bushing' or 'donut' inside the seater stem, that only works for your bullet, and contacts just toward the tip of the ogive. Most decent bullets vary primarily in the section nearest the tip.
 
How do you make the epoxy plug in such a way that it can e easily be swapped out for a new one? Or can you? It would be nice to be able to use such an apparently well made die on more than one bullet and know that I am getting consistent results.
 
Like others have mentioned it is a problem with inconsistent contact between the seating stem and the bullet,
you might look and see if the point is not actually contacting the inside of the seating plug. I believe Forster can fix this for you.
BB
 
How do you make the epoxy plug in such a way that it can e easily be swapped out for a new one? Or can you? It would be nice to be able to use such an apparently well made die on more than one bullet and know that I am getting consistent results.

Duct tape. :evil:

the-red-green-show-main-300x300_zps00ec2947.jpg


Or send the seating stem and three bullets to the die manufacture and they will make a custom seating stem.
The "PROBLEM" with doing this is you will become a one bullet man. "SO" if you do this order a second seating stem.

I struggled with this one night, so I started swapping seating stems from other makes of dies and fixed the problem. Just make sure you leave a note in the die box of where it came from.

Or move to a wooded area where your all your shots will be at short range, keep your seating stem and load nothing but round nose bullets.

Laugh2

Sorry its been a slow night.
 
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