Found WWII pics of my dad with his 'jungle carbine'

nntw

nntw

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...okay, maybe i'll even post them.

My dad was part of 'Polish forces under british command', and was assigned to occupation duty in Germany for a while.

Was looking through some of his old service pics a few days ago, and it looked like he and his buddy were armed with 'Jungle Carbines'.

Sigh... wish he was still around for me to ask him the question directly... but as I understand it, and milsurp experts be gentle with me please, these were issued for a while then they went back to the 'full stock' model?

Knowing my dad, he probably appreciated not having to lug around the extra weight.
 
The No.5 isn't a "Jungle Carbine", that's just a nickname. It was developed from the No.4 to meet a requirement for a "Shortened, Lightened" version of that rifle for airborne forces in the European Theatre of Operations. Some were issued there, but the end of the war sort of overtook that need.

They didn't so much go back to the "full stock" model as they never went away from it until the FAL came into service. There were plenty of them and Britain was effectively bankrupted by the war, so the No.5s were never going to fully replace the No.4s. It took the widespread introduction of semi-auto battle rifles to justify the expense of replacing the No.4.

The No.5 is known as the Jungle Carbine because it tended to be preferred for issue, when available, in the post-war colonial campaigns that tended to be in tropical climates. But since it was handier and slightly lighter than the No.4, I am sure it was generally preferred by the troops who got them, including your father, wherever they were.

Do you know if he was serving in an airborne formation?
 
TheTooner said:
The No.5 isn't a "Jungle Carbine", that's just a nickname....QUOTE]


I realized 'jungle carbine' was a nickname- hence my use of quotes- and thanks for confirming it was a No.5

And actually, my dad's was a paratroop unit, so it makes sense that he'd have that version.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
When did the No.5 go into general service? I always assumed he had a No.4 when he parachuted into Arnhem but now I'm starting to wonder. From what I remember of the movie "Bridge too far" they showed them with No.4s, of course a movie isn't always the best source of historical detail...
 
The No5 began production ~ mid '44 and would have been issued shortly thereafter. Was it issued in significant numbers by market garden? I don't know for sure, but I'm theorizing probably not. I'm sure someone else will be along shortly for that one.

Looking forward to the pics!
 
He probably did go into the Arnhem operation with a No.4. I have never seen any photos or read any reports of Market Garden that included No.5s. I don't think they were much issued before 1945.
 
Its nice to hear found pics of your dad during WW2, I had one negative of my grandfather then and it was him and someone else standing in front of an airplane. I lost it around a decade ago before I could get a picture made. :(
 
My granddad served in the Canadian airforce and I'd give my left one for a picture of him in his Airforce attire.
Would like to see your pic.
 
ow... not after personal attention, just curious about the firearm.

my dad.... had just finished conscript's training in Poland when the Germans invaded. was captured, escaped because the guards weren't paying attention.

made his way to France where he fought with Polish forces until surrender. got to the coast, didn't quite make it to england.

spent time in a 'bush camp', harvesting trees and making charcoal.

tipped off that the germans were rounding up foreigners and deporting them to poland, crossed into spain and was interned.

joined a hunger strike and after 2 weeks, rather than have an international incident, the spanish let him and other prisoners go.

went by sea to england.

almost became aircrew (tail gunner) but then joined First Polish Brigade, paratroop unit that was supposed to help liberate Warsaw... but was used at Arnhem in Market Garden instead.

survived that.

went on to do occupation duty in germany.

some of his friends, after he passed away, said this was probably the nicest period of their lives. after years of poverty, fear, hunger, they had a roof over their heads, money to spend and weren't living with the risk of being shot everyday.

have a few pics of the time they smuggled out their guns and went deer hunting with Brens and Stens on a former Nazi game preserve. the local refugee camp appreciated the donation of meat!

demobilized in England, not wanted there, came to Canada.

settled in Toronto, and was a decent, hardworking citizen for the rest of his life.

he once told me he felt ashamed because he was a displaced person (DP - he'd been called that more than once), but I told him, that unlike many canadians who just happened to be born in Canada, he'd proven that he DESERVED to be here.

...as for pics, well, i'll see, but no offence, 3 years after his passing it's still pretty painful to look at them and may be too hard to post them.

thanks to all for the interest though.
 
nntw said:
ow... not after personal attention, just curious about the firearm.

my dad.... had just finished conscript's training in Poland when the Germans invaded. was captured, escaped because the guards weren't paying attention.

made his way to France where he fought with Polish forces until surrender. got to the coast, didn't quite make it to england.

spent time in a 'bush camp', harvesting trees and making charcoal.

tipped off that the germans were rounding up foreigners and deporting them to poland, crossed into spain and was interned.

joined a hunger strike and after 2 weeks, rather than have an international incident, the spanish let him and other prisoners go.

went by sea to england.

almost became aircrew (tail gunner) but then joined First Polish Brigade, paratroop unit that was supposed to help liberate Warsaw... but was used at Arnhem in Market Garden instead.

survived that.

went on to do occupation duty in germany.

some of his friends, after he passed away, said this was probably the nicest period of their lives. after years of poverty, fear, hunger, they had a roof over their heads, money to spend and weren't living with the risk of being shot everyday.

have a few pics of the time they smuggled out their guns and went deer hunting with Brens and Stens on a former Nazi game preserve. the local refugee camp appreciated the donation of meat!

demobilized in England, not wanted there, came to Canada.

settled in Toronto, and was a decent, hardworking citizen for the rest of his life.

he once told me he felt ashamed because he was a displaced person (DP - he'd been called that more than once), but I told him, that unlike many canadians who just happened to be born in Canada, he'd proven that he DESERVED to be here.

...as for pics, well, i'll see, but no offence, 3 years after his passing it's still pretty painful to look at them and may be too hard to post them.

thanks to all for the interest though.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing. My Dad passed away suddenly a few years ago. I still have dreams where he's miraculously brought back, that it's all just a big mistake. I don't know your pain, but I know one like it. It will be good for you to share him this way, go through the pictures, have a good cry and let us salute the man for his service and life. Few people know of the bravery of the Poles in WW2, from the breaking of cavalry lances on tanks out of spite, to the ferocity with which they defended Britain from the air, to the un-imaginable bravery and tragic betrayal of the Warsaw up-rising. It would be good to remind people!
 
nntw said:
he once told me he felt ashamed because he was a displaced person (DP - he'd been called that more than once), but I told him, that unlike many canadians who just happened to be born in Canada, he'd proven that he DESERVED to be here.
Click to expand...

My father-in-law was born in the Ukraine, a Volga-German. After the Germans went through it became pretty obvious that when the Russians came back any ethnic Germans, 200 years there or not, weren,'t going to be welcome. As an 7 year old he walked from his home just North of the the Crimean all the way to Berlin where his father was promptly impressed into the Volkstuurm and killed. After many years he ended up in Canada. To this day he fears that being a "displaced person" without papers will somehow result in him being deported back to the Ukraine.
 
NNTW Polish forces made a great account of themselves during WW2. Both during the defense of Poland in 1939 and where ever the Free Poles served during the War, from RAF to the 1st Airborne and everthing in between.

If France with 6.5 million men had made even a partial offer compared to what Polish forces did against Hitlers Juggernaut in Sept 1939,..... June 6, may have been just another day in 1944.

I refer you to a song by Swedish Metal group Sabaton, regarding Polish defense in 1939. The title is "40 to 1".
Chorus.
Baptized in Fire, 40 to 1, spirit of Spartans, Death and Glory, soldiers of Poland, second to none, wrath of the Wehrmacth brought to a Halt!!

Read the history of Capt Ragnis and his 720 defenders at Wisnas, in front of the 42,000 strong German X1X Army corps. This is mainly what the song relates to!
Be proud of your History!

That War has been over nearly 70 years ,but it has left such an indullable impression on me, I still can be very narrowed minded about countries and cultures by their performance, or lack of during those perilous times.:canadaFlag:
 
RememberTheSomme said:
NNTW Polish forces made a great account of themselves during WW2. Both during the defense of Poland in 1939 and where ever the Free Poles served during the War, from RAF to the 1st Airborne and everthing in between.

If France with 6.5 million men had made even a partial offer compared to what Polish forces did against Hitlers Juggernaut in Sept 1939,..... June 6, may have been just another day in 1944.

I refer you to a song by Swedish Metal group Sabaton, regarding Polish defense in 1939. The title is "40 to 1".
Chorus.
Baptized in Fire, 40 to 1, spirit of Spartans, Death and Glory, soldiers of Poland, second to none, wrath of the Wehrmacth brought to a Halt!!

Read the history of Capt Ragnis and his 720 defenders at Wisnas, in front of the 42,000 strong German X1X Army corps. This is mainly what the song relates to!
Be proud of your History!

That War has been over nearly 70 years ,but it has left such an indullable impression on me, I still can be very narrowed minded about countries and cultures by their performance, or lack of during those perilous times.:canadaFlag:
Click to expand...

Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna.
 
nntw, thank you for sharing the story about your dad. The Polish were great fighters and for any doubters read all you can on the day Germany started the war in Gdansk. There is a monument there to honour all who held out against the Germans for many days 'till they ran out of ammo and food. The Germans thought they could overrun the Polish Garrison in less than a day, big surprise to the Germans on what happened.


On May 7th I have my best friend from Poland arriving for a visit with her husband who is a Captain in the Polish Army (Commando) who last year spent almost 9 months in Afghanastan. I am really looking forward to meeting him and know he will have some very interesting stories. He was stationed at Base Warrior.

They were going to go to Egypt for their honeymoon but changed their mind (no kidding) so asked if they could come to Canada. She is a wonderful person and we intend to take her and her husband shooting several times.

If you want to visit a great country visit Poland, have been there four times. Fantastic food, very interesting history and drop dead gorgeous women.
 
My father was a boy in Northern England during the war. He still vividly remembers the Polish pilots stationed nearby, and the fact that they used to fly their Spitfires up the street, in knife edge, at an altitude of about 100 feet - apparently all you could see from the bedroom window was the wing marking flashing by. They also used to fly low over the school grounds and wag their wings to the kids in the playground. Dad said the sound of a Spitfire still gives him an emotional reaction.
 
Years ago I was fortunate to meet Jan Lewadowski who after Poland was overrun flew Spits. out of England. He flew with the likes of Falkowski and Zurakowski (AVRO Arrow Test Pilot). Lewandowski had gunsight pictures of a ME262 he shot down during a dog fight and if I remember correctly might have been the first 262 that was shot down.

He was a very humble, quiet man and like so many from Poland a true hero.

Year later I was at a gas station in Castlegar BC, got talking to a man also fueling his car with a distinct accent, he was Polish and flew with Lewandowki and Zura during the war. It really is a very small world. We had a great visit and he was so suprised I knew Jan L.

Those Polish pilots were beyond brave and often flew in weather when no one else would consider "going up". There entire purpose in life was to defeat the Germans and flew every time they could to accomplish this.
 
Great story, I'd love to see the pic. My Dad was a refugee, but too young to fight.

This is supposed to be Stanisław:

horsa2.jpg
 
nntw,

My grandfather also did occupation duty. He was discharged as a major, so he didn't do anything remotely as 'exciting' as your father, as far as I know.

Last week I asked my father if he had any pics of grandpa in uniform, or any pictures of his time in the war, and there's nothing. Great men such as those deserve their picture to be shown.
 
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