Four iconic guns of WWII---12(3) converted autos--British--German and Russian.
- Thread starter drm3m
- Start date
Russian PPSh-41.
German MP44 ---Erma assembled.
British Lanchester SMG.
German MP40---Erma assembled.
David
I would love to buy a non-restricted version of the Lanchester.
Longer barrel, semi auto, 5 rounds. The vented barrel just looks bad a$$.
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You and everybody else!
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
I don't know if you could call the Lnachester "iconic". Unless you are looking at examples of the wrong gun at the wrong time. It was built like a cadillac.....cast and machined parts, heavy, and an outrageous 50 round magazine that would make most guns lean over. Not so on the Lanchester. It weighs so much you don't even notice the 50 rounds hanging off the side.
At a time when the UK was losing the war, and facing invasion, the sten, both cheap and reliable, was what the UK needed.
I got to fire one in full auto a few years ago with it's 50 round mag. What a hoot. After the 5 round mags we are stuck with here in Canada, it felt like the normal capacity mag of the sterling couldn't be emptied.
I have a dewat downstairs of the Lanchester. You can sure see the lineage of the sterling in that gun. Sterling should have been paying Bergman royalties.
At a time when the UK was losing the war, and facing invasion, the sten, both cheap and reliable, was what the UK needed.
I got to fire one in full auto a few years ago with it's 50 round mag. What a hoot. After the 5 round mags we are stuck with here in Canada, it felt like the normal capacity mag of the sterling couldn't be emptied.
I have a dewat downstairs of the Lanchester. You can sure see the lineage of the sterling in that gun. Sterling should have been paying Bergman royalties.
.
Thanks for the comments.
This Lanchester Mk.1 was manufactured by Sterling Engineering Company Ltd. in 1942.
These British submachine guns were well made and weighed 9.57 lbs.----somewhat on the heavy side when compared to the Sten.
The 50 round magazine certainly added additional weight.
The first contract was June 13, 1941. (50,000 guns) at 14 Pounds Sterling each.
Last contract October 9, 1943.
Lanchester assembly contracts were actually awarded to three firms:
Sterling (two plants) Total production until October 1943 – 74,579.
Sterling assembly of the Lanchester was split between the Sterling Engineering Co Ltd in Dagenham (code marked S109) and the Sterling Armaments Company in North Hampton (code M619)
W W Greener – production 16,990
Boss & Co. – production 3,990
When Britain went to war in 1939, there were no submachine guns of any sort in her Order of Battle. In fact, the armouries were bare. It was not until 1940 that the British Purchasing Commission in New York was instructed to buy all the Thompson submachine guns that it could lay its hands on. In all, orders were placed for 300,000 Thompson submachine guns and a staggering 249 million rounds of .45 cal. ammunition. 100,000 never ended up in Britain but rather at the bottom at the Atlantic Ocean, casualties of the German U-Boats etc.
Once the gold reserves were gone it was a case of necessity that Britain, in desperation, just had to manufacture her own submachine gun.
After evaluation and debate the decision to manufacture a gun that resembled the German MP28II was made, leading to the development of the British Lanchester MK.1 submachine gun.
A very nice example of the German MP28II that inspired the development of the Lanchester Mk.1 (Not mine.)
Period photos in the Warsaw Ghetto --a German soldier with an MP28II. October/November 1940.
Two MP44s;
The top gun was assembled by Steyr and has been deactivated with a moving action.
The bottom gun was Erma assembled and is a converted auto 12(3).
David
This Lanchester Mk.1 was manufactured by Sterling Engineering Company Ltd. in 1942.
These British submachine guns were well made and weighed 9.57 lbs.----somewhat on the heavy side when compared to the Sten.
The 50 round magazine certainly added additional weight.
The first contract was June 13, 1941. (50,000 guns) at 14 Pounds Sterling each.
Last contract October 9, 1943.
Lanchester assembly contracts were actually awarded to three firms:
Sterling (two plants) Total production until October 1943 – 74,579.
Sterling assembly of the Lanchester was split between the Sterling Engineering Co Ltd in Dagenham (code marked S109) and the Sterling Armaments Company in North Hampton (code M619)
W W Greener – production 16,990
Boss & Co. – production 3,990
When Britain went to war in 1939, there were no submachine guns of any sort in her Order of Battle. In fact, the armouries were bare. It was not until 1940 that the British Purchasing Commission in New York was instructed to buy all the Thompson submachine guns that it could lay its hands on. In all, orders were placed for 300,000 Thompson submachine guns and a staggering 249 million rounds of .45 cal. ammunition. 100,000 never ended up in Britain but rather at the bottom at the Atlantic Ocean, casualties of the German U-Boats etc.
Once the gold reserves were gone it was a case of necessity that Britain, in desperation, just had to manufacture her own submachine gun.
After evaluation and debate the decision to manufacture a gun that resembled the German MP28II was made, leading to the development of the British Lanchester MK.1 submachine gun.
A very nice example of the German MP28II that inspired the development of the Lanchester Mk.1 (Not mine.)
Period photos in the Warsaw Ghetto --a German soldier with an MP28II. October/November 1940.
Two MP44s;
The top gun was assembled by Steyr and has been deactivated with a moving action.
The bottom gun was Erma assembled and is a converted auto 12(3).
David
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In Canada many of the MP44s were imported from East Germany after the war.
They were WWII German guns with Nazi markings and refurbished in the DDR---to some degree.
The VoPo used these MP44s post war.
The Volkspolizei (German for the "people's police"), and VP or VoPo, was the national police of the German Democratic Republic (East Germany). The Volkspolizei was responsible for most law enforcement in East Germany, but its organisation and structure were such that it could be considered a paramilitary force as well. Unlike typical police in most countries, they were equipped with armoured personnel carriers and artillery and trained as military units.
While any East German citizen could be a non-commissioned officer, all members of the commissioned officer corps were required to be members of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED), as the force was expected to maintain the interests of the party and its regime as well as public order. The VP was founded after World War II, taking the East German remnant of the Nazi Ordnungspolizei (Orpo) and Kriminalpolizei(Kripo), and was abolished after German reunification. East Germans nicknamed the Volkspolizei the VoIP.
On the left side of the receiver is a stamp of a’ sunburst’ surrounding a shield, with the number 10 inside the shield.
I have been told that this is an East German VOPO marking that was done after the war when many of these guns were used and refurbished for use by the East German police.
The number 10 in the middle of the shield denotes the inspector much like “Waa” for WWII guns where any work on the gun may have been done.
The so called " VOPO Stern", the VOPO star represents no reference to a VOPO administrative district to which the gun was issued.
(From Fritz in Germany on Jan Still’s Forum)
We have 15 GDR districts and sunburst stampings up to 30 shows how they match together.
This stampings are the personal code numbers of the acceptance officers of the Volkspolizei.
These numbered sunburst stamps have only been stamped during a period between 1948 and 1958. In this time all weapons were accepted like this after a major overhaul mostly in the district shops.
It could be that the personal code of an acceptance officer was identical to the district number.
You can compare this sunburst stamp with the Waa acceptance of the III. Reich. Each Waa number belonged to an acceptance officer.
WWII German Erma assemblers markings.
A mix of WWII and post war East German history.
David
They were WWII German guns with Nazi markings and refurbished in the DDR---to some degree.
The VoPo used these MP44s post war.
The Volkspolizei (German for the "people's police"), and VP or VoPo, was the national police of the German Democratic Republic (East Germany). The Volkspolizei was responsible for most law enforcement in East Germany, but its organisation and structure were such that it could be considered a paramilitary force as well. Unlike typical police in most countries, they were equipped with armoured personnel carriers and artillery and trained as military units.
While any East German citizen could be a non-commissioned officer, all members of the commissioned officer corps were required to be members of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED), as the force was expected to maintain the interests of the party and its regime as well as public order. The VP was founded after World War II, taking the East German remnant of the Nazi Ordnungspolizei (Orpo) and Kriminalpolizei(Kripo), and was abolished after German reunification. East Germans nicknamed the Volkspolizei the VoIP.
On the left side of the receiver is a stamp of a’ sunburst’ surrounding a shield, with the number 10 inside the shield.
I have been told that this is an East German VOPO marking that was done after the war when many of these guns were used and refurbished for use by the East German police.
The number 10 in the middle of the shield denotes the inspector much like “Waa” for WWII guns where any work on the gun may have been done.
The so called " VOPO Stern", the VOPO star represents no reference to a VOPO administrative district to which the gun was issued.
(From Fritz in Germany on Jan Still’s Forum)
We have 15 GDR districts and sunburst stampings up to 30 shows how they match together.
This stampings are the personal code numbers of the acceptance officers of the Volkspolizei.
These numbered sunburst stamps have only been stamped during a period between 1948 and 1958. In this time all weapons were accepted like this after a major overhaul mostly in the district shops.
It could be that the personal code of an acceptance officer was identical to the district number.
You can compare this sunburst stamp with the Waa acceptance of the III. Reich. Each Waa number belonged to an acceptance officer.
WWII German Erma assemblers markings.
A mix of WWII and post war East German history.
David
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