For what it's worth I've shot some factory Hornady ammo (223 Rem and 308 Win) that exhibited pressure signs (extractor marks). I don't know if they were soft-headed brass, or over pressure. BTW, both rifles survived, so I would suspect not over pressure.
Freaked out now - Case head seperation.
- Thread starter mungojeerie
- Start date
I really doubt it was the IMR4831. Belted magnum cases really don't last that long anyway, especially cheap stuff. My advice: Pull them apart and save the components that can be salvaged. Get rid of that old questionable brass, and start over. If you want to get serious about it, you can either start headspacing off the shoulder rather than the belt - this will extend the life of your brass because you won't be overworking it. If you're going to do this, just bump the shoulder back 2 or 3 thou after the first firing in your chamber.
If you want to keep headspacing off the belt (there are good reasons to go either way), invest in a collet body die, and really watch your brass for signs of stress - it won't last as long this way, but resizing is simpler and requires only basic reloading knowledge and tools.
If you're not sure what I'm talking about here (sorry, I know you said you were new to hand loading), do more reading on the subject - there's lots to learn.
Be safe and good luck.
If you want to keep headspacing off the belt (there are good reasons to go either way), invest in a collet body die, and really watch your brass for signs of stress - it won't last as long this way, but resizing is simpler and requires only basic reloading knowledge and tools.
If you're not sure what I'm talking about here (sorry, I know you said you were new to hand loading), do more reading on the subject - there's lots to learn.
Be safe and good luck.
the case head separation is always a high headspace/ bad brass issue
I've been using mostly full sized Federal brass in both my 30-06's and have never had head separation. My loads are on the high side (the primer pocket gets out of spec in 5-7 firings)
Recently I found a bag of (my own) Winchester once fired brass: head separation in 3 reloads (4 considering the first one)
The headspace is within spec, the barrel is a brand new IBI.
I've been using mostly full sized Federal brass in both my 30-06's and have never had head separation. My loads are on the high side (the primer pocket gets out of spec in 5-7 firings)
Recently I found a bag of (my own) Winchester once fired brass: head separation in 3 reloads (4 considering the first one)
The headspace is within spec, the barrel is a brand new IBI.
The thing is the first shot, which does 90% of the damage, wasn't fired in this chamber.
prairie lover
CGN Regular
- Location
- southern MB
Sizing brass too much is all we got going on here. Pressure is fine
hunters home
CGN Regular
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
But the OP states at the beginning that this was once fired factory ammo brass, fired by him. Unless he has more than one .338 ( unlikely) then the brass had fireformed ( and stretched) to his rifle’s chamber in the initial firing. This being so, pull the bullets on the remainder of the unfired rounds and use the bent paper clip to probe for an incipient crack inside each of them all around, as previously suggested. Better yet as also suggested, cut several cases in half lengthwise with a hacksaw, any stretch marks and brass thinning will be obvious inside. If the brass is stretching enough on the initial firing to show impending case head separation he could try the same sequence with another brand or two of factory ammo to see if a different brand gets rid of the problem. If the problem persists with other ammo, it looks like a choice between factory ammo only for this rifle or sell this one and try a different rifle. Stretched cases and poor brass life are common problems on belted cases with untapered sharp shouldered profiles, they are poor choices for reloading by the full length resizing method.
The belt was originally designed to provide a point to headspace on for the very tapered cases of the 375 H&H which originated in 1912 and and the later 300 H&H which lacked a well defined shoulder to headspace on. With quality variations in the ammunition of the day and poor storage coupled with rough usage in far off lands this case design proved to be as dependable as the rimmed designs they gradually replaced. On modern case designs having untapered walls and sharp shoulders the belt provides no useful advantage over a conventional bottle necked cartridge design that headspaces on the shoulder. The belt adds no wall strength but it gives some people the impression of ‘more powerful’.
Belted cases, in practice, seldom control headspace. The cases use the shoulder. BUT FL sizing pushes the shoulder back way too far. Either neck size, or partially FL size, allowing the case shoulder to compress in the chamber.
This looks like a sizing issue - not a pressure issue. A backed out primer usually means mild pressure.
This looks like a sizing issue - not a pressure issue. A backed out primer usually means mild pressure.
I see where you're coming from but I was responding to legi0n's post of his exerience.
Still, that doesn't change the fact that 90% of the damage is done on the first shot, especially in commercial off the shelf rifles.
When I purchase factory ammo because I can't find new virgin brass, I pull the bullets, dump out half the powder, fill the case to the base of the neck with Dacron fibre, then plug the neck with Dollar Store Play Dough before taking them to the range to fireform for that particular rifle.
I very seldom make up loads for more than one rifle and keep all of the cases for each rifle in a separate container.
I didn't read this whole thread so disregard if it's already been covered
How did you anneal the cases? How far down did the color change go? I'd you annealed to low it would have weakened the brass and can cause this issue. Just the necks should be annealed
How did you anneal the cases? How far down did the color change go? I'd you annealed to low it would have weakened the brass and can cause this issue. Just the necks should be annealed
Thank you to everyone who responded, especially to Eagleye who seems to have been the first to post the most agreed upon analysis in the thread. I was not aware that low pressure could cause primers to unseat as such and I was also not aware that case head separation was not as dangerous as it appears. I will admit that it is likely over sized, of the 3 different cartridges I loaded, I found that the .338 was the most difficult to resize so I most likely resized it too much.
I have purchased a headspace gauge as well as new brass and will spend some time figuring out the headspace for this rifle and FL resize for that when I resize this brass next time. Thank you to the member who suggested a couple resources to learn about head space measurements, the two sources you suggested were two of the videos that I did watch when searching the topic.
My next questions is... I have pulled the bullets and saved them (though I am finding that polymer bullets don't like the inertia puller, so maybe will invest in a cam puller for the press) and saved the powder. Unfortunately when I processed this brass, I processed all of the .338 brass I had been saving up from the factory rounds I was shooting to a point where it was ready to load powder and bullets which means that I have around 60 or 80 cases that have all been primed. I had a couple packs of large rifle magnum primers that I had purchased long ago when they were still easily available, but now that they are impossible to find (in my experience) this is a problem.
Is there any way I can reuse them? I have seen a number of people say that you can slowly and gently de prime them on the press while wearing PP and with a towel placed over the press, what are your thoughts on that? and if this is the case, can they be reused or are they no good anymore?
I have purchased a headspace gauge as well as new brass and will spend some time figuring out the headspace for this rifle and FL resize for that when I resize this brass next time. Thank you to the member who suggested a couple resources to learn about head space measurements, the two sources you suggested were two of the videos that I did watch when searching the topic.
My next questions is... I have pulled the bullets and saved them (though I am finding that polymer bullets don't like the inertia puller, so maybe will invest in a cam puller for the press) and saved the powder. Unfortunately when I processed this brass, I processed all of the .338 brass I had been saving up from the factory rounds I was shooting to a point where it was ready to load powder and bullets which means that I have around 60 or 80 cases that have all been primed. I had a couple packs of large rifle magnum primers that I had purchased long ago when they were still easily available, but now that they are impossible to find (in my experience) this is a problem.
Is there any way I can reuse them? I have seen a number of people say that you can slowly and gently de prime them on the press while wearing PP and with a towel placed over the press, what are your thoughts on that? and if this is the case, can they be reused or are they no good anymore?
I have the burstfire annealer, maybe not the best one out there but its seemed to be one of the most affordable and I was happy with how it preformed. I had some old well used .270wsm brass that I tossed because of damage to the case, splits in the neck etc so I practiced on those in the dark so that I could get the process and timing down. None of the cases that I reloaded were over annealed or annealed into the body etc. and thank you for asking, this wasn't in the thread, but other than stating that I annealed it, I hadn't previously given any further information.
BattleRife
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When knocking out live primers, I wear safety glasses and try to apply the force gently, I have never had one go off. I am more worried about deforming them, as I figure warping the cup or anvil increases the chance of a misfire if I reuse them.
I do reuse them sometimes, but not for anything important. I have not had any misfire.
I do reuse them sometimes, but not for anything important. I have not had any misfire.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Resizing your brass to fit your rifle - do not loose track what you want to do - needs to fit your rifle, not to a third party's gauge. So use your chamber as "the gauge" - size one brass too long - try in that rifle - bolt likely will not close - screw in the die a partial turn and size another one - may or may not get bolt to close - with sort of trial and error you discover where the die setting allows bolt to close, but turned slightly back, it does not - so you know that the case now fits exactly to that chamber - no clue what actual dimensions are, but that brass fits to that chamber - assuming that you have the neck trimmed appropriately. Up to you how much "bump" that you want - essentially that is using the case shoulder for headspace - not the belt - although for your rifle it might turn out to be the same. Do not need to buy anything.
Yes, I did see this method in one of the video I watched, however I had already ordered the headspace gauge kit, so will give it a go. Thank you again for the info and responding.
So I removed the live primers without issue and I reused them on some rounds I loaded using factory brass. .338 has been hard to find and all that I could come up with was Winchester brass (yes i know its cheap, but its all i could find) I tossed a handful in the go/no go gauge and they looked good. and they fired with the reused primers no prob.
I used the Hornady headspace comparator gauge and found the following:
1.7355 - Fire formed brass from a hornady factory round
1.7340 - Once fired hornady factory brass, resized and later unloaded after the second shot out of this batch had case head separation
1.7320 - New Winchester brass
so there is greater headspace in the factory brass as opposed to my resized brass, where there was concern I had oversized it, correct? Now what? I fired a batch of the Winchester brass and didn't experience any case head separation.
I used the Hornady headspace comparator gauge and found the following:
1.7355 - Fire formed brass from a hornady factory round
1.7340 - Once fired hornady factory brass, resized and later unloaded after the second shot out of this batch had case head separation
1.7320 - New Winchester brass
so there is greater headspace in the factory brass as opposed to my resized brass, where there was concern I had oversized it, correct? Now what? I fired a batch of the Winchester brass and didn't experience any case head separation.
