Free float barrel on mannlicher stock or fullstock
- Thread starter y2k
- Start date
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Perhaps do not fix what is not broken?? I read for older - like WWI and WWII long stock rifles - many were stocked to have some "up" pressure at the muzzle - but is even - straight up - not just on one side or other. I am sort of sure the Canadian Army standards, or perhaps British Army standards, were .030" free float for most of barrel length in barrel channel, and under hand guards, until the muzzle - then wanted 7 (?) pounds up pressure. I believe target shooters improved on that with various bedding points along the barrel, but not sure regulation Army standard for stocking up ever changed. No clue whatsoever what CZ's plan is - but, if your only clue is contact at muzzle - has history that says that might be okay - need to shoot it and see what the target says. Not seeing many bench rest or long range rifles set up with long stocks - should give you a clue - has it's place, but is not modern thinking to make into a "tack driver", nor a long range target gun.
In the day when they shot 800, 900 and 1,000 yard bullseye targets with iron sights, many winners were using full length stocked rifles - many who did not place so well, were also using them. I never competed, but read that reading wind, and making allowance for it, was pretty key part of "winning" at those ranges. So difference between finishing first or 15th was not so much about the rifle used, as it was ability to judge and adjust for the wind.
In the day when they shot 800, 900 and 1,000 yard bullseye targets with iron sights, many winners were using full length stocked rifles - many who did not place so well, were also using them. I never competed, but read that reading wind, and making allowance for it, was pretty key part of "winning" at those ranges. So difference between finishing first or 15th was not so much about the rifle used, as it was ability to judge and adjust for the wind.
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The muzzle on that rifle should have a specified amount of upward pressure from a small pad on the fore end against the barrel.
This helps to stabilize harmonics, or at least it's supposed to.
Sometimes, if a stock has been refinished and it isn't done properly, it will warp or the receiver bedding will be worn and not repaired.
One of the most accurate rifles I have owned, was a lovely little 1904 Mannlicher Schoenaur carbine, chambered for the 6.5x54MS.
It had an 18.5 in barrel with a 1-7 in twist rate, to stabilize the long 160 grain roundnose bullets.
That little rifle had substantial recoil. The stock was the original factory Walnut, full length to the muzzle, with a steel cap.
An absolute dream to carry and it was sighted in for ammo regulated to 2000fps.
I really liked the stock on that rifle but its butt was just to small and when I shot it, felt recoil, along with muzzle blast caused me to develop a flinch.
I took the rifle to a now deceased friend and stock maker Don Robinson, who had his shop in Winfield BC.
He used the original stock as a model and made up a sample to be used in his duplicating machine.
He fitted one of the stocks that he ran off on his machine to my rifle.
The only difference from the original stock, was a Schnabel fore end and a shotgun size butt and recoil pad. He had even duplicated the 24 lpi checkering pattern.
When I took the assembled rifle home, then to the range in the back yard, instead of the usual slightly over an moa group at 100, with the iron sights, my eyes were much younger then, I was lucky to stay on the target.
I put the old stock back on and torqued everything to where it should be and shot it again. It was right back to where it used to shoot, slightly over a moa.
I called Don, told him I was very pleased with the look and feel of the stock he had made for me. Loved the way it made felt recoil easier to handle, then told him what happened accuracy wise.
He suggested I skim coat the bedding he had laboriously carved for the action first and try it again. The groups shrank to appx 5moa.
Then, he suggest that I add a pressure pad on the fore end tip.
That got me to thinking, finally, and I looked at the fore end tip bedding on the original stock. There was a Pressure Pad there.
It wasn't really noticeable because of the manner the stock had been manufactured.
There was a gentle angle, from the front of the receiver to the last inch or so of the fore end and there was a very slight discoloration on the finish, where it was touching the underside of the barrel.
It was pretty easy to figure out how much upward pressure was being exerted on the barrel by placing a block over the barrel with a leg touching each side of the stock and adding weight until it moved the micrometer dial positioned on the underside.
For the little 1904, just over four pounds was required to move the dial.
I took the stock Mr Robinson had made and reassembed the rifle with upward pressure, by using brass and plastic shim stock, between shot strings.
I ended up with close to 30 thousandths of shims, before the rifle even started to settle down to about 2moa.
If memory serves, it required .034 in to fill the gap between the barrel and stock and to apply the required amount of pressure to get harmonics back to where the rifle shot it's best.
Anything more than .034 caused the groups to open and the rifle to shoot high.
Adding fore end pressure to stocks used to be pretty much the industry standard method of controlling harmonic vibration.
With the advent of composite stocks and aluminum block inserts for bedding the receivers, it really isn't necessary anymore.
This helps to stabilize harmonics, or at least it's supposed to.
Sometimes, if a stock has been refinished and it isn't done properly, it will warp or the receiver bedding will be worn and not repaired.
One of the most accurate rifles I have owned, was a lovely little 1904 Mannlicher Schoenaur carbine, chambered for the 6.5x54MS.
It had an 18.5 in barrel with a 1-7 in twist rate, to stabilize the long 160 grain roundnose bullets.
That little rifle had substantial recoil. The stock was the original factory Walnut, full length to the muzzle, with a steel cap.
An absolute dream to carry and it was sighted in for ammo regulated to 2000fps.
I really liked the stock on that rifle but its butt was just to small and when I shot it, felt recoil, along with muzzle blast caused me to develop a flinch.
I took the rifle to a now deceased friend and stock maker Don Robinson, who had his shop in Winfield BC.
He used the original stock as a model and made up a sample to be used in his duplicating machine.
He fitted one of the stocks that he ran off on his machine to my rifle.
The only difference from the original stock, was a Schnabel fore end and a shotgun size butt and recoil pad. He had even duplicated the 24 lpi checkering pattern.
When I took the assembled rifle home, then to the range in the back yard, instead of the usual slightly over an moa group at 100, with the iron sights, my eyes were much younger then, I was lucky to stay on the target.
I put the old stock back on and torqued everything to where it should be and shot it again. It was right back to where it used to shoot, slightly over a moa.
I called Don, told him I was very pleased with the look and feel of the stock he had made for me. Loved the way it made felt recoil easier to handle, then told him what happened accuracy wise.
He suggested I skim coat the bedding he had laboriously carved for the action first and try it again. The groups shrank to appx 5moa.
Then, he suggest that I add a pressure pad on the fore end tip.
That got me to thinking, finally, and I looked at the fore end tip bedding on the original stock. There was a Pressure Pad there.
It wasn't really noticeable because of the manner the stock had been manufactured.
There was a gentle angle, from the front of the receiver to the last inch or so of the fore end and there was a very slight discoloration on the finish, where it was touching the underside of the barrel.
It was pretty easy to figure out how much upward pressure was being exerted on the barrel by placing a block over the barrel with a leg touching each side of the stock and adding weight until it moved the micrometer dial positioned on the underside.
For the little 1904, just over four pounds was required to move the dial.
I took the stock Mr Robinson had made and reassembed the rifle with upward pressure, by using brass and plastic shim stock, between shot strings.
I ended up with close to 30 thousandths of shims, before the rifle even started to settle down to about 2moa.
If memory serves, it required .034 in to fill the gap between the barrel and stock and to apply the required amount of pressure to get harmonics back to where the rifle shot it's best.
Anything more than .034 caused the groups to open and the rifle to shoot high.
Adding fore end pressure to stocks used to be pretty much the industry standard method of controlling harmonic vibration.
With the advent of composite stocks and aluminum block inserts for bedding the receivers, it really isn't necessary anymore.
