French model 1892 8mm revolver all you need to know

My primers have not backed out from pockets. However the flow of primer cup does stick out from rim edge with fp indentation after firing. I feel that 32-20 is not the right case for French or sweed.

I have had no issues with my 1892 with Remington .32-20 converted brass, maybe they have a thinner rim or my 1892 has a little bit more clearance than your one.
 
gents; I had similar issues with my October 1895 manufactured military issue Swiss 1882. I found that Winchester, and to a lesser degree Remington, 32-20 rims are slightly too thick and binding sometimes occurs. Starline brass on the other hand has a slightly thinner rim and work very well for me. My typical loads are throwing 100 grain waxed lead wadcutters around 950-1000 fps, so fairly "hot". I also have loads that range from 675 fps mouse farts to 1200 fps (with 72 grain 32 ACP FMJs), and still no issues. Use Starline if you can find some. I have also thinned the rims of Winchester brass and it also works well. BTW, I use both trimmed (23mm) and untrimmed (~33mm) brass, and no issues.
 
Well that's what I was wondering. My 1892 is 1914 thus restricted and has almost no wear. So with time and use may be headspace does get larger? By the looks of it I may have to just load cut Russian brass for 1892 and 1887.
I have had no issues with my 1892 with Remington .32-20 converted brass, maybe they have a thinner rim or my 1892 has a little bit more clearance than your one.
Here's how 7.62 nagant brass look like in my 1892 in comparison with 8mm fiocchi cases.
 
Last edited:
Once I find a way to shoot my factory PPU Nagant ammo, I will trim and full length size the once-fired brass... the Nagant rims are ideal for the Swiss revolver (and Swedish and French), but Starline is ok for the Swiss.

Now, I would love to find a Nagant revolver in excellent condition. :)
 
How do you guys deal with thicker rims of 32-20 cartridge in 1892? I loaded some and after 2 shots my cylinder will not rotate as primers interfere with back plate. I have no issues in 7.5 swiss with same brass. as there is more headspace in 1929 revolver , but not in sweede or French. Do you reduce rim thickness?

I haven't had issues shooting resized starline or Winchester 32-20 brass in several different M92s. The question here is why are your primers backing out? Does the loaded cylinder rotate with before you shoot but not after two shots are fired? What powder are you using? How warm is your load?

The only time I have seen primers actually back out was when the load was weak and didn't generate enough pressure to expand the primer to grip the sides of the primer pocket.

If primer flow back is the issue then either the load is way too hot (I doubt it) - OR the pistol has an enlarged firing pin hole that needs to be sleeved. I've seen a lot of the latter in Webleys and some in the M92. These old guns do not do so well with dry firing, the conical shaped firing pin overtravels and stretches the firing pin hole in the frame.
 
Last edited:
Well , primers don't actually back out. The deformation happens at the fp strike surface which causes primer to deform at the fp indentation.
It may be my load which is 3 grain of tightgroup at 1.425 with bullet weight of 115 gr sized at 323. My die is 323 size so that's what I use.
Rims of 32-20 feel tight in my revolver so are you doing anything with rims of 32-20 cases?

I haven't had issues shooting resized starline or Winchester 32-20 brass in several different M92s. The question here is why are your primers backing out? Does the loaded cylinder rotate with before you shoot but not after two shots are fired? What powder are you using? How warm is your load?

The only time I have seen primers actually back out was when the load was weak and didn't generate enough pressure to expand the primer to grip the sides of the primer pocket.

If primer flow back is the issue then either the load is way too hot (I doubt it) - OR the pistol has an enlarged firing pin hole that needs to be sleeved. I've seen a lot of the latter in Webleys and some in the M92. These old guns do not do so well with dry firing, the conical shaped firing pin overtravels and stretches the firing pin hole in the frame.
 
Well , primers don't actually back out. The deformation happens at the fp strike surface which causes primer to deform at the fp indentation.
It may be my load which is 3 grain of tightgroup at 1.425 with bullet weight of 115 gr sized at 323. My die is 323 size so that's what I use.
Rims of 32-20 feel tight in my revolver so are you doing anything with rims of 32-20 cases?

Sorry, but sure they do, it is reasonably common in rifles and handguns like revolvers.

It is usually caused by excessive head-space between the rear of the cylinder and the breech face and lighter loads and dry grippy chambers where the force of the expanding gas in the case is only enough to force the case walls against the chamber walls and not enough to force the back of the case back against the breech face unlike with higher pressure loads which will usually stretch the case length and re-seats the primer back into the primer pockets or flatten them.

Excessive pressure loads will give the mentioned raised part around the pin indentation/deformation from the excessive gas pressure pushing the primer cup to start being forced to start flowing back into the firing pin hole. If that load goes much higher or if the firing pin is too pointy the excessive gas pressure can cause a primer rupture.

If you are getting raised primer firing pin indentation deformation your loads are either way too high for a antique gun or your primers are made from very soft metal and you may have too big a firing pin hole.

I have seen some ammo and guns do it a number of times over the years. Here are some examples I grabbed off the internet -


91-1.jpg
wehlen-head-space-web.jpg
toolight.jpg
150Sierra47.jpg
primer2.jpg

primers_01FE13E0-5D42-11E3-A6EC005056A302E6.jpg
PISTOL-2.jpg
bakdout.jpg
4403188570_1277604321_o.jpg


headspacestretch_frame_002-1.jpg
 
Last edited:
Well Thank you for pictorial explanation. I have some bulging in primer cups, but not as bad as in 30-30 shown.
Anyways, I feel that 32-20 brass from RP and WIN has rims too thick for my revolver.


Sorry, but sure they do, it is reasonably common in rifles and handguns like revolvers.

It is usually caused by excessive head-space between the rear of the cylinder and the breech face and lighter loads and dry grippy chambers where the force of the expanding gas in the case is only enough to force the case walls against the chamber walls and not enough to force the back of the case back against the breech face unlike with higher pressure loads which will usually stretch the case length and re-seats the primer back into the primer pockets or flatten them.

Excessive pressure loads will give the mentioned raised part around the pin indentation/deformation from the excessive gas pressure pushing the primer cup to start being forced to start flowing back into the firing pin hole. If that load goes much higher or if the firing pin is too pointy the excessive gas pressure can cause a primer rupture.

If you are getting raised primer firing pin indentation deformation your loads are either way too high for a antique gun or your primers are made from very soft metal and you may have too big a firing pin hole.

I have seen some ammo and guns do it a number of times over the years. Here are some examples I grabbed off the internet -


IMG]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4403188570_1277604321_o.jpg[/IMG]

headspacestretch_frame_002-1.jpg
 
Well , primers don't actually back out. The deformation happens at the fp strike surface which causes primer to deform at the fp indentation.
It may be my load which is 3 grain of tightgroup at 1.425 with bullet weight of 115 gr sized at 323. My die is 323 size so that's what I use.
Rims of 32-20 feel tight in my revolver so are you doing anything with rims of 32-20 cases?

Primers can and do back out - and it seemed that was how you were describing it, so my questions were trying to determine if that was what was happening with you. Backflow on the primer in a high power rifle cartridge usually indicates a too-hot load, but in these pistols the backflow or cratering of primers would usually happen when the firing pin channel has become oversize from wear or dry firing. You could try backing off a bit on the powder charge and see if it still happens.

I haven't had any trouble with Winchester or Starline 32-20 brass in these revolvers and I've sold same to half a dozen other shooters who haven't complained about it either. That doesn't mean it's not happening in your revolver, you could have a tight one.
 
I have seen this in two instances, Excessive headspace or too hot of a load. Back off the powder charge then see. Sometimes with excessive charge the primer will also flatten. Good idea to get a chrony and find out.
 
Loads within the maximum rating of these pistols simply shouldn't produce enough pressure to flatten or crater a primer in normal circumstances.

It primers are flattening then pressure is likely at least twice what the revolver was designed for. If primers are flattening then it's time to back away and take a hard look at what is happening.

Same thing with cratering of the primer: either the load is overpressure by a large amount or the firing pin channel is oversize; or it could be both.

3 gr of bullseye might be a reasonable load - or it could be over 35,000 psi depending on bullet weight and seating depth. In some circumstances seating a bullet 0.1" deeper in a small capacity can double the pressure with fast pistol powders like Bullseye.

It's hard to say what the issue is without seeing the revolver and the fired cartridges. If I were the OP I'd try back off that load to about 2.2 gr Bullseye and if that was OK, try working up to about 2.5gr of Bullseye and see if that solved the flowback issues.
 
Last edited:
Worked up some loads using Hodgson Titegroup. 10 rounds at each charge level.

OAL: 1.330"
bullet: .327" 110gr JET cast bullet (0.545" length)
brass: 1.075", new, converted from Starline 32-20
powder: Titegroup, charges weighed
primer; Winchester, Remington, Federal
velocity: chronograph reading
pressure: software estimate

2.4 gr = 720 fps, 10500 psi
2.6 gr = 760 fps, 11800 psi
2.8 gr = 800 fps, 13200 psi

Notes
- Quickload velocity estimates were within 2%-3% of actual chrony readings.
- CIP max for this cartridge is 18130 psi.
- Seating depth is important. Seating the bullet 0.10" deeper could increase pressure by 4000 psi or more.
- Double charges are possible with this powder. Take appropriate precautions.
- All 3 loads showed promising levels of accuracy with 2.8 gr load possibly being better.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for the data. few questions, what sort of bullet is used? I presume your own made led bullets? or fmj?
What brand of primers?
Worked up some loads using Hodgson Titegroup:

OAL: 1.330"
bullet: .327" 110gr (0.545" length)
brass: 1.075", converted from Starline 32-20
powder: Titegroup
velocity: chronograph reading
pressure: software estimate

2.4 gr = 720 fps, 10500 psi
2.6 gr = 760 fps, 11800 psi
2.8 gr = 800 fps, 13200 psi

Notes
- Quickload velocity estimates within 2% of chrony readings.
- CIP max for this cartridge is 18130 psi.
- Seating depth is important. Seating the bullet just 0.10" deeper could increase pressure by 3000-4000 psi or more.
- Double charges are possible with this powder. Take appropriate precautions.
 
Does anyone have or know how to get a RCMP FRT report for the French M1892? A copy posted to this thread would be awesome.

Hey mods - how about a sticky.
 
I have the Hordany 8 mm lebel revolver 3 die set and a bunch of starline 32-20 brass but I guess the die set came with the straight wall sizing dies the does not remove the bottleneck. What are you guys using to convert 32-20 into 8 mm ?.
 
This is my reloading method for 32-20 to 8mm lebel revolver from farther up the thread. I use a cheap RCBS manual case trimmer (with a cordless drill) to trim to length initially, and after the cases have been fire-formed once.






I'm using JetHunter's excellent cast bullets. They are very consistent at 0.327", 112.5 grains and 13.716mm length.

How I've been loading them

1. Trim starline 32-20 casings to 27.5mm.
2. Run the casings through a Hornady 8mm lebel rev sizing die.
3. Run the casing through a Hornady 8mm lebel rev expanding die just enough to allow the 0.327 bullets into the case mouth.
4. Prime the casings with CCI small rifle primers.
5. Measure and load 2.8gr trailboss powder.
6. Seat and lightly crimp bullet with a Hornady 8mm lebel rev seating die to an overall length of 34.8mm.

After the first shot the cases fireform to the cylinder and require a little trim. After that they retain their dimensions. I have loaded some cases over 5 times and haven't seen any splits or anything unusual, though the primer pockets are definitely getting looser. They fit nicely in a 38/357 case.

Technically the OAL should be 36.7mm, however I've been seating to 34.8mm to avoid crimping in the lube groove of the bullet.
 
Back
Top Bottom