French Resistance No.4 Lee Enfields

...the diff varieties of enfields are pretty neat with all the historical relevance they bring to the collecting world for sure...
 
Some of the Lee-Enfield rifles, Bren Guns and Sten guns parachuted to the French Partisans ended up in Nazi hands and were use by pro-nazi French Vichy Milice troops.milice01.jpgmilice02.jpg
 
Eaglelord17 said:
The vast majority of those would be captured from Dunkirk.
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Not No.4 rifles, they would not. The No.4 was not fielded prior to 1941. Same with the Sten - not fielded at Dunkirk because it did not exist yet.

Enfields lost at Dunkirk would be almost exclusively SMLEs. It is possible some quantity of Bren Guns were captured in numbers where they could be re-issued, but a majority of small arms that made it to the beaches was evacuated with the troops.

There is a misconception that most captured materiel was stuff left on the beaches. When it came to small arms, most were field losses during the retreat and later the defence of the beachhead, inland from Dunkirk.
 
Claven2 said:
Not No.4 rifles, they would not. The No.4 was not fielded prior to 1941. Same with the Sten - not fielded at Dunkirk because it did not exist yet.

Enfields lost at Dunkirk would be almost exclusively SMLEs. It is possible some quantity of Bren Guns were captured in numbers where they could be re-issued, but a majority of small arms that made it to the beaches was evacuated with the troops.

There is a misconception that most captured materiel was stuff left on the beaches. When it came to small arms, most were field losses during the retreat and later the defence of the beachhead, inland from Dunkirk.
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This is my understanding as well
 
An article in a french magazine I read years ago, specified that the Milice guns came from failed or captured alĺied parachute drops. Unfortunately, when I moved into a smaller house I gave away all my gun magazines away, so I am quoting from memory.
 
When I looked into this awhile ago, there were 3-4 Long Branch that had already sold but they did not have matching bolts.

A thought had crossed my mind about these rifles. From what I can remember of the video, the rifles are linked to the Maquis due to the PP markings indicating that they were in possession of French police post war. The thought being that they were collected by French police by those Maquis fighters who had captured/used them during the war.

However, I can't help but think that if a French civilian had picked up any No4s dropped/lost during the Normandy Campaign, they also would've been marked by French police in the same manner after the war. As such, there is really no way to guarantee that they were specifically used by Maquis fighters.

Just a thought...

Thanks,
Kevin
 
Yeandle31 said:
When I looked into this awhile ago, there were 3-4 Long Branch that had already sold but they did not have matching bolts.

A thought had crossed my mind about these rifles. From what I can remember of the video, the rifles are linked to the Maquis due to the PP markings indicating that they were in possession of French police post war. The thought being that they were collected by French police by those Maquis fighters who had captured/used them during the war.

However, I can't help but think that if a French civilian had picked up any No4s dropped/lost during the Normandy Campaign, they also would've been marked by French police in the same manner after the war. As such, there is really no way to guarantee that they were specifically used by Maquis fighters.

Just a thought...

Thanks,
Kevin
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Buy the rifle, not the story. Unless a item has a unbroken chain of documented supporting provenance it could be anyones best guess call. Personally I think it pretty amazing that this batch of LE did not get a trip to the smelter to satisfy some arms reduction treaty and instead get sold to market.
 
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I found it quite amazing that the Long Branch No4 Enfields that were sent to Greece in the 1950’s , imported by Century Arms in Montreal, mostly had matching bolts
Many appeared un-issued
 
stirlingsmg said:
What happened to these Vichy Milce when France was liberated by the Allies
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I’m not sure, but I suspect whether there were reprisals would depend a lot on where a policeman lived and how they had acted.

Many people, police officers included, did not choose to live in the Vichy zones. One day they went to work and their government had changed. It would not have necessarily meant those people went out of their way to progress the nazi agenda. A traffic cop was likely still just a traffic cop.
 
The Milice were not popular after the war. They were used by the Nazis they seek out and destroy the Maquis/FFI shooting their fellow Frenchmen without remorse . Like the Charlemagne Waffen SS Division not many survived the war. Years ago there was a movie with Michael Caine, about one of the Milicien trying to escape his faith.
 
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