Front sight solder advice.

tokguy

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I've 2 sights that require soldering. A 98 with a ramp & a tinned bbl...and a US Krag with a skinny arsed front sight ( crooked).
Any advice that more experienced 'Amateur Plumbers' would put forth? Got regular and silver solder...leaning toward regular at this point.
No jigs or such yet...just getting going here
Regards
Tokguy
 
I am very much "amateur" so likely meet that qualification. I just did 3 "soldered on" sights in past two weeks - none fallen off yet. Everything I read leads me to "enough" flux is okay, "too much" flux does not exist , and not enough flux is a bad thing.

Solder - did many copper water line repairs using 50/50 or 40/60 plumbers solder (lead/tin) and Kester flux, in a flat red tin. Not sure how easy to find lead bearing solder any more? Was intrigued by Brownells "HI-Force 44" for gun work - turns out it is about 4% silver and the rest is more or less tin - no lead. Melting point posted as 475 Fahrenheit, so smidgeon warmer than old school 50/50 solder? Could order the solder, but they can not ship the flux. Found similar on Amazon.ca - 4/96 solder and the appropriate flux - Stay-Brite brand by Harris - instructions talk about using it on stainless steel, aluminum and "other solderable metals" - different flux specified for aluminum, than for the others. The box says this solder's melting point is 435 F.

Made "soft jaws" for bench vise from lengths from old leather belt. Bolted a 12" length of 1/8" thick 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" angle iron, at right angle to action - under the flat behind the recoil lug - set level on the angle iron and back and forth to get the action sitting "level" within the vice. One sight was a banded rear sight - from a rotted out Swede M94 barrel going onto a NOS M94 Swede barrel. Fussed quite a bit with emory cloth and wood dowels to get the old solder out of that old sight base - loose fit onto the NOS barrel. Lots of flux on barrel, then heated and spread a very thin layer of that 4/96 solder - to "tin" it. Did same inside the sight base - was able to grab that with welding glove and shake most of the molten solder out of there. With minor effort was able to slide the tinned sight back onto the tinned seat on the barrel - lots of flux applied again before putting the two together. Multiple fussing to get level reading same across rear sight compared to what it read on that angle iron. Could not use the aligning hole for the rear sight screw - original barrel had one, but the NOS barrel did not. Heated up again and introduced a bit of solder inside the rear sight base against the barrel. Got it "stuck on there" Let it cool. Checked level again. Of course it moved - canted off one way. Re-heated and grabbed with welding glove and rotated. Let cool. Of course, too far. Took about 3 tries before the level read the same for receiver and rear sight. Front sight was a banded sight onto front end - essentially same commotion - level now reads the same on front sight, on rear sight and on receiver. As far as I got with that one.

A picture of the barrelled receiver in the vice soft jaws - the angle iron bolted on to create a "flat" to set a level on, to level out that action:

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Earlier project was to install a front sight ramp onto a barrel. Set in place - traced with fine lead pencil - removed - scraped, sanded, etc. to get inside that outline bright and shiny - no bluing - used acetone to "degrease", then fluxed, then tinned that area. Cleaned underside of ramp same way - tinned it as well. Made a stack of wood blocks on my vice. Used about 12" or 14" length of 5/16" key stock from top of wood pile to the front sight ramp. Found a spring that I could get hooked under barrel and over that key stock - made a "spring loaded" "puller downer" because I was sure that ramp would move as the solder "tinning" went to liquid - wanted it to be pulled straight down when that happened. My level says it is "level" with the receiver. Moderate taps with wood block and it does not fall off. As far as I have got with that one...

My "red neck" front sight ramp puller downer - did not take pictures of actually doing the deed - was my "concept" test to eyeball if it might work, and it did:

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I love this sub-forum...no arguing. Polite folks doing their best to help you.
Potash; this is my kinda Mcgyver setup...got a picture of where I might go...I like it
Thank you very much
 
I just do not find the old time lead/tin solder out here in rural Manitoba - especially with solid wire - especially not some sort of flux in the cavity inside the solder wire. I do not know enough about what can be "made to work" for fluxing, so go with manufacturer instructions. That 4% silver / 96% tin is at least as strong, if not stronger, than the lead tin stuff. Lead/tin was used to fasten sights for 100 years or more - probably still will work just fine - I just can not find any, and have my "lifetime" supply of that 4% silver stuff and the correct flux...
 
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March of 2019 I silver soldered a set of Rem rifle sights to a 14” 870 barrel, I used the same silver soldered and paste flux I use when I do any soldering of copper pipes. Kester brand iirc, after layout and surface prep I pre tinned the bases and barrel and secured them with aluminium mig welding wire after fluxing. Once the solder flowed things set nicely, I hit them with a rubber mallet or length of pine after they cooled and they didn’t fall off. I hunted grouse and rabbits with the barrel all through the 2019 and 2020 seasons as well as shot a fair bit of 00buck and full power slugs last year as well, they’re on there solid.

Here is a link to my thread on it, on the second page is a couple YouTube links that helped me with the process, I’ve done a lot of soldering over the years and have a good grasp of it but it’s nice to see something barrel/sight specific and not just plumbing etc.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...0100-Bubba-came-by-and-he-brought-a-blowtorch
 
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FWIW, here is what I do.
I use tin/silver plumbing solder, with std flux, seems to be as strong (or stronger IMO) than lead solder, YMMV
For positioning, I made a jig with a short piece of angle iron, "padded" with hockey tape.
The angle has an adjustable "bendable" finger (1/8 x 1/2 flat) attached with a screw near the end, pointing toward the center.
The jig is clamped to the barrel, the screw is adjusted to position the sight as wanted.
Then the barrel and sight are tinned and the sight soldered on, gently pushing the sight against the finger and letting them cool.
Works as required 95% of the time for me.
 
Western metal usually have a good supply of solder(site sponsor). A couple of years ago a neighbour wanted to mount a light on a shotgun barrel l offered him some golf club head epoxy, he tried it to glue some sort of base or rail to attach the light to anyway just last week I asked him how it was holding up, said it was still holding strong and he is not the gentlest or careful type. Not saying this is the best choice for sights but may be an option for another project.
 
The Krag is the one that's going to suck. It's a carbine length unit, with a tall narrow front sight...OEM anyhow. But it's got an easy 15° cant to the right
Drug it out of the safe and it's brazed on...
3MNchgzl.jpg

But I may be able to get the bronze heated to a plastic state an just correct it.
An, no...it's not original any any correct way. I may have worn a shirt with Bubba sewn above the pocket at one time or another in my past...I go to meetings now and I'm better.
The Mauser is a re-install so it's just getting the solder and torch work right.
But the jigs are good to have as plan 'B'...couple sec's too long with the torch and it'll be that time for sure.
Regards to all for the help
Tokguy
 
Might want to read up on protecting that bore if that truly is brazing - brazing requires near red heat on steel / iron - surely will play hell on the rifling inside the bore. I have used a Heat Stop paste from Brownells - when welding bolt handles on Mauser bolts - it works!! - have read others that whittled a snug fitting wood dowel to fit in there - as the wood chars, it robs all the oxygen and the iron can not oxide from the heat - might be a consideration??
 
When soldering on sights does the parkerizing or bluing need to be removed first? Does the flux affect the parkerizing or bluing? I have done soft and silver solder but no gun projects
 
From what I read, caused me to do what I did - steel needs to be shiny clean - degreased, then fluxed for solder to stick to it. I do not think solder will stick to anything other than fluxed, clean metal - copper, steel or aluminum - but what do I know - never did try to stick something onto blued or parked steel.

Terms and words - "soft" solder I think refers to a lead / tin mixture - often 50/50, but sometimes other proportions. What is "silver soldering"? A silver rod needs like 1700 Fahrenheit or more - that is a "brazing", not a soldering, process - is "silver soldering" simply using like a 3% or 4% silver bearing solder, usually the rest of it being tin??
 
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Might want to read up on protecting that bore if that truly is brazing - brazing requires near red heat on steel / iron - surely will play hell on the rifling inside the bore. I have used a Heat Stop paste from Brownells - when welding bolt handles on Mauser bolts - it works!! - have read others that whittled a snug fitting wood dowel to fit in there - as the wood chars, it robs all the oxygen and the iron can not oxide from the heat - might be a consideration??

In the absence of Heat stop I'll likely try for a heat sink if the Mauser goes well. As far as damaging the metal...I imagine that's already done...but I like the wooden plug idea.
The Krag is a marvellous handling lil thing...like get it going again...w/o Kentucky wind-age on a still day .

Call to arms; it won't adhere to Blued metal well...gotta be clean. Is Bluing not considered speed rusting...rust is bad for adhering most things IIRC
 
When soldering on sights does the parkerizing or bluing need to be removed first? Does the flux affect the parkerizing or bluing? I have done soft and silver solder but no gun projects

The flux that I used was "Stay-Clean" by Harris - Part No. SCPF4. I used a lot of it - it goes on as a waxy sort of "grease", melts as the heat comes up - runs and leaks all over the place - when front sight ramp was completed, had what looked like charred crap on outside and underneath of the blued barrel - when it cooled enough to touch, was "sticky" wherever that flux had leaked and ran - but all wiped off very easily with no apparent damage to the bluing. At most, I had sprayed some aerosol penetrating oil onto the shop towel before I wiped it off. I do not recall needing to use steel wool, but had a pad of 0000 steel wool and some 3-in-1 oil set out to use for cleanup - do not think I needed it. One barrel was a Swede chambered in 9.3x57, from a commercial Husqvarna rifle, but I do not know exactly what type of "bluing" process was used on them. The other was a NOS M94 carbine barrel - likely made at Carl Gustaf armoury in Sweden - it has the Swedish Crown stamp on it?
 
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When soldering on sights does the parkerizing or bluing need to be removed first? Does the flux affect the parkerizing or bluing? I have done soft and silver solder but no gun projects

Parkerizing or bluing needs to be removed for solder to stick and the flux doesn’t affect anything. At least the paste flux I used didn’t, I cleaned it off with a wet rag after I had the barrel cool.
 
Update.
I don't know what kind of Brazing / Soldering material that was used...it's Bronze colored, but with a low temp to get plastic state. Heated the sight (primarily), gave it a gentle tap and 'Bob's your uncle'
Which of course leads you down that path " Hmm, I bought that 75% finished stock for it..."
Next thing you are 'Tssking' at the vise marks on the barrel " A touch with some emory cloth and a spot of Cold Blue..."
Been in the Bunkhouse sanding and polishing for a few days now, LOL. 1st the snow was too deep, then it was too muddy...now it's snowing again!
 
Sounds like a "hook has been set" - I find messing like that very enjoyable way to pass the time. No doubt I could make, maybe, between 4 and 7 cents per hour, if I was able to sell any of these things that I worked on!!!
 
Oh...I've 3 carbines on the go now...an Argy 91 that needs a little fore stock work to get it to Mannlichter style...a post WW1 K98 commercial sporter ( the other solder job) and a 1st year Krag. Too bad Bubba got to the Krag...but I'd never afford ( or hunt with ) a pristine one...so it works out.
Thanks for the input all
 
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