FTF/FTE T97 - Feed Ramps

[Travis Bickle]

My advice is stay away from the t97 s

Ha! Same unfortunately.
OP I had very similar problems with mine years back.
I learned my lesson.
Literally one trip out to the bush with 6 different types of ammo for testing and I sold it.
Failure to feed after failure to feed. The only magazine ammo combo that worked was the factory magazine with FMJ projo ammo.
Then I saw my target at 50 meters with a 12" + group on it. Wasn't even worth the headache to tune it to get it to work reliably. Even with good quality factory ammo it was shooting pie plate groups at 50 meters.
Terrible ergonomics, awkward charging handle, terrible iron sights, inaccurate (even by bullpup semi auto standards), not reliable for feeding out of STANAG magazines at all or anything but FMJ out of the factory mags and $1K plus price tag. BAH!
One of the biggest disappointments in my years of owning firearms.
Put it on the EE and it sailed. I have never once regretted that one!

 

[y2k]

Would be interesting to see review on the new gen 2 model

 

[Travis Bickle]

Would be interesting to see review on the new gen 2 model

I've heard they are better but I have no experience with them hands on.
But I was so disappointed in the T97 after that one trip out with it, I can't even be bothered.
I have a new 582 series Mini 14 and it does everything I need in a semi auto NR .223 and more.

The thing with the T97 back then was you had to buy the stock model for $1K plus then had to get the "FTU" mod (or whatever it was) then chop up your $1K+ rifle permanently hacking off front sight and other parts. The FTU mod cost another $300 or so if memory serves.
You still end up with a wonky, innacurate, not very reliable, bad ergonomics, feeding problem plagued bullpup that you can now mount an optic and side charging handle.

The worst thing is I wanted to like the rifle. I like the heavy simple design of the action, the rifle itself was built like a tank and very compact. I like the easy to access and adjust gas system with the adverse setting. It just didn't live up to any expectations I had for it at all in all the other areas which are the ones that really matter unfortunately. It can't just be me, they can't even give them away these days. Dealers are selling the Gen 1's as low as $725 in some places!

 

[lavino]

Would be interesting to see review on the new gen 2 model

I don't know how to write a review but since I bought one a month ago in Edmonton. It is still under 500 rds in about 3 sessions but here is my impression so far:

First of all the feeding ramp is now AR like. With almost 500 rds through it I have yet to experience a failure. There were a few times while inserting new mag in I didn't push it in properly so first round didn't chamber but all good after a tap and re-rack.

Love the flat upper now. Charging handle is plastic (polymer if you want me to make it sounds better ) but looks pretty strong. Besides the charging handle is completely removable so it anything bad ever happens to it I can even shape up a piece of metal and drill a hole to replace it. Cheapo keymod rail from amazon fits on it with no issue (took forever to ship)

Lower hand guard is still the Gen 1 plastic one. I replaced it with the T97.ca LHG which now allows me to add a Strike Industries hand stop. I will give 9/10 for the T97.ca LHG. All I need is a longer safety switch lever.

Mag release I heard is larger then Gen1 but I bought an aftermarket mag release from Hi-cal I can now reach over with my trigger thumb to release the mag with if the mag drops free the speed is comparable to my AR mag change time minus the re-rack of charging handle.

Everything else I think is Gen 1 standard.

Trigger is not crap (especially after the LHG upgrade). It is not very long like someone claims. It is not unpredictable like some video review said. May be I got a lucky one. I always know when it breaks during dry fire so I found all those negative trigger comment not true for me. I have a trigger tech TT15 so I know how short a short trigger break ought to be. The reset is not that long either. I've had far worse AR mil spec trigger. I can double tap and mag dump just like the rest so I have nothing negative to say about the trigger.


There are a few flaws for I have to be fair:

FTU screws came loose during shooting. So either do your loctite or get a lock washer.

Grip feels meh in factory lower. T97.ca lower won't accept beavertail grip (*except Ergo grip I was able to fit one on no problem)

I haven't tried using a 45 degree + red dot. The brass seems to eject very close to my face.

Still mag sensitive... ATRS 10rds mags my friend uses on his AR kinda hard to feed. CPD LAR15 mags generally ok if you actually reload with that mag for about 10, 20 times then some even drop free now. For all the AR mags (pmag, ATRS, LAR15, some unknown ones) I have tried, Troy Battlemag is the best. Smooth in and out 100% drop free (too bad only 5 rds).

Factory mag is absolutely garbage. It is up to your luck but I wouldn't put that thing in any gun.

Gas piston is already very dirty given it is a new gun. I had to clean it quite a bit.

Cleaning tool is garbage. Take it out to reduce weight.

Takedown pins are very tight that must require rubber mallet and punch.

If anyone want any pic of anything you can PM me. I think someone posted some very detail takedow pics in the offical t97 thread. If you wanna see anything specific I am cool with that too.

 

[cr5]

And yet people keep buying them in droves...

They're cheap so they must be good

My experience with the T97 is limited to the first gen and a single range trip with a couple other guys, one of them brought a T97, we had no issues with reliability and it wasn't terrible for accuracy. It has a very unique recoil impulse and is quite soft shooting. So even though I had a positive experience with one that doesn't mean I feel they are a good rifle or a good value. If they were $600-$800 they would be more in line with what I feel they are worth.
The problem with these rifles is that like all Norinco rifles they have very poor quality control and you never know what you are getting until you've already paid for it. One rifle will work fine with all magazines and ammo combinations and one with the next serial number will have a magwell that is too tight to fit certain magazines and may have 1.5 gas ports (drilled through into the other half of the barrel), one will shoot well and the next will shoot 6 inch groups at 50 yards. The sights are garbage forcing you to spend more money changing to the FTU which as mentioned by another still leaves you with a cheap Chinese rifle that has no warranty and no parts support.
Spending money on these is not wise in my opinion, you end up spending $1500+ on it and once you get there you're getting close enough that you may as well just buy a better rifle like a Tavor or XCR-L now that the price on used ones has come down to around and sometimes under $2000.

To the OP, what you should have done instead of grinding the feed ramp is adjust your magazines feed lips, opening up the front a little to let the bullet tip sit a little higher probably would have solved your issues. It sounds like your magwell is out of spec slightly and the magazine is sitting too low.
Advice given to me by a gunsmith/AR-15 armourer "never touch a rifle with a dremel tool". As said by another person earlier, the materials are surface hardened which once the surface layer is removed results in a soft exposed metal which will wear rapidly, so even if you get the angles right they won't last. This is why I won't pay for a "trigger job" you're better off to simply replace parts with parts that are built better. You even have to be careful polishing parts, if you go too deep you can remove the hardened surface causing problems in the future.

I'm pretty sure you've ruined your rifle and it's now nearly worthless.

 

[Astute Observer]

Before you start filing anything...

"...look at the ramp and see where the copper witness marks on each side of the ramp are."

Exactly this. Don't file anything until you know what your action is doing. If it ain't a problem feeding, don't try to "fix" it - just do nothing.

If there is a problem feeding a new rifle, you do the absolute minimum amount of filing necessary - and do it in small increments. And only do it where the copper marks are.

As the other guys said your rifle is most likely a brick.

Yup.

 

[DVX]

Ha! Same unfortunately.
OP I had very similar problems with mine years back.
I learned my lesson.
Literally one trip out to the bush with 6 different types of ammo for testing and I sold it.
Failure to feed after failure to feed. The only magazine ammo combo that worked was the factory magazine with FMJ projo ammo.
Then I saw my target at 50 meters with a 12" + group on it. Wasn't even worth the headache to tune it to get it to work reliably. Even with good quality factory ammo it was shooting pie plate groups at 50 meters.
Terrible ergonomics, awkward charging handle, terrible iron sights, inaccurate (even by bullpup semi auto standards), not reliable for feeding out of STANAG magazines at all or anything but FMJ out of the factory mags and $1K plus price tag. BAH!
One of the biggest disappointments in my years of owning firearms.
Put it on the EE and it sailed. I have never once regretted that one!

Really? I've noticed my T97 to be consistently more accurate than my Tavor running the same ammo and same optic (EOTech XPS)

 

[Travis Bickle]

Really? I've noticed my T97 to be consistently more accurate than my Tavor running the same ammo and same optic (EOTech XPS)

That's not saying much lol Though I would also completely agree with you on that. The T97 I had was more accurate than the Tavor I owned briefly. I also sold the Tavor very quickly. The Tavor however fed 100% reliably no matter what ammo or magazine combo I had in it. Also the ergonomics of the Tavor are a mile ahead of the T97. But the price of them is beyond ridiculous and I couldn't justify keeping it at the price for the horrid accuracy. I like to shoot at 100 meters and the Tavor couldn't hit a sewer lid at that distance.
Great gun for shooting Palestinians in the face at 6 feet in a confined mud hut for sure or whatever. Did not suite my needs as a recreational shooter on a budget in Canada.

 

[Jarvy]

Really? I've noticed my T97 to be consistently more accurate than my Tavor running the same ammo and same optic (EOTech XPS)

The trigger and the sights are the culprits, because they take some getting used to. The trigger is just light take up until it suddenly goes off, which is really different from pretty much everything else. The sights, I've found, have to be used instinctually. Don't worry about getting a good sight picture, because you won't, just focus on the front sight and the trigger. I started out with "pie plate" gorups, but now get very consistent ~2" groups with 62gr Aguila 5.56 using the iron sights.

Ammo is another factor, it *really* doesn't like some of the commercial .223 loadings I've tried. For 55gr it needs to be hot, like M193, or use heavier projectiles.

 

[DVX]

That's not saying much lol Though I would also completely agree with you on that. The T97 I had was more accurate than the Tavor I owned briefly. I also sold the Tavor very quickly. The Tavor however fed 100% reliably no matter what ammo or magazine combo I had in it. Also the ergonomics of the Tavor are a mile ahead of the T97. But the price of them is beyond ridiculous and I couldn't justify keeping it at the price for the horrid accuracy. I like to shoot at 100 meters and the Tavor couldn't hit a sewer lid at that distance.
Great gun for shooting Palestinians in the face at 6 feet in a confined mud hut for sure or whatever. Did not suite my needs as a recreational shooter on a budget in Canada.

Hmm, not able to hit a sewer lid at 100 meters? I would attribute that more towards user error, rather than a problem with the rifles accuracy. Maybe you're just a bad shot?